got handled.

PUAgoon · 2013-04-21T08:47:45+00:00

Dude, here's the thing: you can either let a girl antagonise you, or you can melt her.

When she told you to sit across the room, why not raise your eyebrows, grin big and acknowledge her awesome sarcasm? (to target) "Whoa. Is she always like this? She can stay." Then go and dig for stories about the friend.

Here's what the bitchy friend knew about you when she arrived: you asked her friend out for a drink. Being the tag-along to a date blows. Every girl loathes it. She has to babysit her friend, who probably draws more male attention than her.

Being a bitch was a defence mechanism. By engaging with the bitchy friend, you could have neutralised her, made her an ally, and shown big-time value to your target.

recyclablebantha · 2013-04-21T05:47:20+00:00

I guess I don't really need to know what a good recovery line would be--rest assured that the four worlds "where would I sit" will never exit my mouth in that sequence again

Trying to remember recovery lines for every situation is a laborious exercise, anyway.

But the idea that you can preempt being "handled" in the future by censoring yourself..... this is a bad precedent which could result in you painting yourself into a corner, socially speaking..... increasingly nervous to say anything.

A better way would simply be to foster the kind of attitude whereby you simply respond in some natural way. Less work, in a way.

For example, my first thoughts (and apparently yours) regarding this girl's poor attitude, was how strange and out of place her comments were. So it would have been easy to simply disregard responding directly to that girl, instead turning to her friend (the one you came to see) and commenting on how strange it is that a person would joke like that with someone they just met.

speeno · 2013-04-21T06:32:07+00:00

your response (and whatever you say during your interactions in general) should've been (1) outcome independent and (2) whatever's on your mind. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't been like "wow! I'm thoroughly impressed with how good you are at being a bitch! (turns to friend) Is she like this in real life or does she just play tough at the bars?" All with a big smile since she knows she's being a bitch but may want to see if you have the balls to call her out on it. This is if I was in your shoes.

What I would've done in my shoes? "lol. If I WANT to, I can sit where your sitting as well, but i'm looking for intelligent solutions here. (finds open 3+ seating at the bar) c'mon, lets all move over there"

If that doesn't work, I'm not the type to 3rd wheel a girls night out for too long anyways. I would try to get a friend there or meet a friend to wingman me.

2013-04-21T03:46:16+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2013-04-21T03:51:58+00:00

[permanently deleted]

radd9er · 2013-04-21T12:37:25+00:00

Offer your hand to the one you invited, bring her over to the table the friend pointed to, pull out the stool for her?

pre_nerf_infestor · 2013-04-21T15:47:03+00:00

Hey guys, have read all of your responses (but can't reply to everyone). Here's my takeaway from this.

This was obviously a shit test and I failed badly. But at first I thought I failed because I didn't know what to do. That's not true--I would have known exactly what to do if those were two guys (or girls I'm not attracted to) that I was going to meet for drinks. I'd have either playfully mocked the friend for being a douche, or actually going over to the other side while giving him the finger, or even taken proper offense and demand an apology or leave. I did none of those things because I fell into the old mentality of treating girls differently. I could use lingo like "frame" and "reality" but you guys probably get the point.
I mentioned "outcome independence" a few times up there but I did not, at all, understand what those two words mean. It doesn't mean "I'll settle for plain ol' friendly chatty conversation". It means "I don't settle, I win or I lose." I should have been prepared to stand up for myself even if it might mean burning the entire situation down to the ground. I wasn't, and surrendered without a fight.
That all said though, I disagree with assertions that she was a bitch. At worst, she simply had a conflicting agenda with me--she wanted to protect her friend from exactly what I went out to do. I don't think it would be reasonable to chalk her actions up to any sort of malicious intent. After I had been...put in my place, she was a lovely person for the rest of the night. Gracious in victory, of course.
Ultimately, it all comes down to the self esteem, and as we all can tell I have some tremendous deficiencies in that area. A part of me really doubts that I'll ever get better at handling this stuff, but then again, sucking at something is the first step to being sorta good at something.

One quick response: yes, I was incredibly spineless and beta and AFC and pathetic and et cetera. But I'd like to remind readers that we all started out someplace similar, else we wouldn't be on this subreddit--and I see no point in dressing up a real experience I had to make myself look better or to fit people's tastes.

rondogboy · 2013-04-21T04:15:39+00:00

A lot of things went wrong here.

When she said "you can sit over there". You shouldn't have taken it seriously and just made a joke of it, something like "No, I don't feel like sitting on your lap"
"So I dropped whatever prepared mentality I had going" BAD. Always keep a strong mentality and go around believing that people are entitled to you, that they are lucky to have you with them and that you are the dominant one in all interactions (Note: Don't act like an asshole, but have this mindset, as it makes gaming woman easier)
"The friend naturally became dominant" NO. Always be in control of any interactions you have with a girl. "Any frustration I had was overshadowed by how impressed I was with her for being a bad, bad bitch." DOUBLE NO, if she acts like a stuck up bitch, kick her off her pedestal.

Learn from the mistakes of this experience so your much better off next time you are in a situation like this.

TheDoctorCoach · 2013-04-21T11:49:48+00:00

I've never heard of anything good coming from a friend being on a date. Once someone else was there it was over. I'm sure good outcomes have happened in such situations, but so rare you have a better chance that night gaming from scratch.

The lesson to learn is to make sure you're meeting alone. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I wrote up an example -- http://thedoctorcoaching.blog.com/2013/03/22/an-example-of-handling-can-i-bring-a-friend-with-us -- of making sure about meeting alone. In this thread's case, I would have made sure it was just her before meeting.

If I didn't make sure and she showed up with the friend I'd say the same thing as in my post before any interaction: "I've just been going out with so many groups lately, I was expecting a relaxed evening with one girl. It's totally cool for you guys to hang out together, but I was looking to relax tonight. You guys have a great time and we'll catch up next time."

Then you leave in good spirits, no animosity, no accepting that they tried to unilaterally change plans on you. Shouldn't ruin the chance for next time with the same girl. They will probably try to keep you there -- all the better for you to leave with them wanting more.

As far as I'm concerned, it was over when he accepted the unilateral change of plans instead of gaming new girls. The getting handled was almost inevitable at that point.

2013-04-21T14:38:36+00:00

[permanently deleted]

jackpg98 · 2013-04-21T05:15:01+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Bbarakti · 2013-04-21T06:50:55+00:00

sarcasm and banter... you're supposed to improv and be able to roll with a little shit talking. This isn't a computer where you say certain magic lines in a certain order and your rewarded with a BJ.. young men are dense and there are thousands of us chasing the same few girls... are you in the moment enough to actually be good in bed?? prove it verbally and maybe she'll give you a chance to prove it in other ways later. rote imitation makes for boring conversation.

Captain-Magic · 2013-04-21T04:34:46+00:00

I would've actually stood up to this girl. She has no business ruining your evening with a one liner.

You did, however, make yourself pretty vulnerable with it all and she just jumped on the occasion to squish you..

If it happens again, don't take it seriously. Laugh it off like she's a 5 year old trying to insult you. Show her you don't get stepped on.

"Ahah! Wow! turn to your friend did you ever think of calling her "bossypants"?!?"

RUistheshit · 2013-04-21T05:43:52+00:00

i'm not an expert in this stuff, but from what i've read couldn't her line have been a shit test? Just to gauge your reaction to the situation?

If I were you i would have laughed, brushed it off, and gotten a chair. Or said something along the lines of "i remember my first joke" or "sit over there and miss my chance to continue talking to you ladies? no shot".

pirateundies · 2013-04-21T06:33:30+00:00

I don't know why everyone is calling this girl a bitch. Without actually being present at the interaction it's hard to say if she was serious or joking. And there's an easy way to find out: ask.

"Jesus!" to german girl "Are you like her only friend?!"

You'll get some response about no that's just her sense of humor or whatever and then you can just blather on about terrible first impressions. Maybe tell a story about a time you made a terrible first impression to re-lighten the mood. [edit: added a word]

Slenthik · 2013-04-21T06:28:15+00:00

I don't enjoy having to tell you this, but the German girl brought her friend along because she doesn't feel the chemistry you do. It's her indirect way of accepting a date without accepting a date. Sometimes they bring their friend along because they think you might be a suitable boyfriend for their friend.

You did as well as you could, in the circumstances, but would have saved face by bailing out after finishing your first drink.

eddyt90 · 2013-04-21T05:41:04+00:00

I'm not sure but maybe it's her type of humor. Don't let yourself get bothered that easily. Even though that was mean, coming up with a good comeback would be even better than the first "hit" she gave you. Take it easy buddy

MrFappu · 2013-04-21T07:55:49+00:00

Mystery has a chapter in The Venusian Arts where he talks about the social dynamic of people sitting down and people who are walking. Probably going to re-read it now.

ysef95 · 2013-04-21T10:58:59+00:00

i saw an FR where a guy handled this by bringing another female friend who sort of into him along and it totally worked out.

I would definitely not have walked into the friend zone like that I do think having female friends is incredibly useful but not when they pressure you into it like that. I mean how is this German HB going to pivot you when she doesnt respect you enough to go on a date with you herself?

In my opinion people who do this are toxic and I wouldnt want a girl like that in my friend group you could still use her to meet other people but I wouldnt enjoy this at all.

DatGuyThemick · 2013-04-21T15:30:54+00:00

Simply put, you done goofed. I am more experienced wing manning for friends than I am picking up women for myself, but I feel that because of this, I have dealt with more than my fair share of females with attitude.

The thing is, that girl was setting the tone, sub-consciously most likely, for not only the whole night, but also your relationship in the group. I guess the term others use is test, and that accurately describes it. She was testing out where you rank in the group, and from now on she'll most likely have a similar snarky attitude towards you.

As for what you should have done? Not asking where you sit is good. Hakuna Matatta, you go where you please dude! You don't ask for them to assign your seating arrangement. You say she's well traveled? Interview her, make her tell you stories about her travels, and entertain you while you have a side conversation going to your date about your dates friend. You're steering two conversations at once here, and putting yourself in the driver's seat.

As for venue changes, I am not your guy, because that's when I separate the 'bitchy girl,' from the one interacting with my pal. All I would suggest is to be up front and vocal about it. Suggest a place you enjoy, and if somewhere you don't like is put forth explain why.

equeco · 2013-04-21T09:17:54+00:00

It's not a big deal. German girls are quite curious and not stereotyped, they tend to be complex and like not standard people. Keep it funny and relaxed and you'll be eating sauerkraut flavored pussy in no time.

woocheese · 2013-04-21T05:44:59+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Really_Cheap · 2013-04-21T09:34:02+00:00

Ooo...feisty.

kyune · 2013-04-21T09:34:14+00:00

If nothing else you can at least be prepared in the future. I'm not sure what kind of impression you ultimately made that night but unless you did something particularly damning you'll probably have an opportunity to regain momentum, but only if you have the confidence and mindset when that opportunity arises.

mete_ · 2013-04-21T11:56:49+00:00

I would consider my self an AFC but I wouldnt have even asked where Should I sit', tell her to scoot over a little because I hate just standing there, I really do. But I guess the tone of her voice was also important was she teasing? Or hinting you to buzz off?

Dorman010 · 2013-04-21T14:10:56+00:00

This was a shit test. Now, what's the point of a shit test? Essentially, a shit test shakes your frame. How do you beat a shit test? You shake her frame, in return, rather than actually tackling the shit test. Here's an example:

Boy: Where should I sit?

Girl: If you want to sit, you can sit over there.

Boy: You're a bossy/feisty one, aren't you? I like it! Give me a real woman, any day! I think you just earned my company!

And just like that, you just rocked the girl's world by demonstrating that her shit tests mean nothing to you - you even like them and reward her for it! An AFC wouldn't know what to say. He would probably be hurt, and completely lose his frame.

crispyhexagons · 2013-04-21T14:11:15+00:00

it's not about what come back you should use. it sounds like at that point it's too late. by asking the girls where to sit, you've already handed over control of the situation.

IntrovertSuccess · 2013-04-21T16:57:53+00:00

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Germans just have a different sense of humour. I think it was just a joke.

You say everything was cool afterwards.

Not everything is an AMOG, or frame-war.

Best way to deal with a test.. if it even was one:

Silence
Shrug
Meh (deadpan)
Cool (deadpan)

The less effort the better.

Still, it didn't sound like a test to me.

theLardisHere · 2013-04-21T19:12:27+00:00

"awww, I LIKE you! you must be fun at parties. You are staying right?" stengthens ur position, coz u showed her comment did nothing to u. In my short experience i dont think this was a shit test, she probably just blurted it out coz she was trying to be funny as the awkward 3rd wheel. also, her being nice later on probably means she regretted being mean, rather than "gracious in victory". my 2 cents.

but then, if i was in ur position, i would have been disarmed as well. i can think of comebacks with a cool head, but in the heat of the situation i turn beta pretty fast. I am working on it.

NahDudeFkThat · 2013-04-21T11:16:10+00:00

Next time, after someone tells you that, simply scan the room for more interesting people and leave without saying a word.

Approach the more interesting people and simply have fun with them.

If you approached hot women and charmed them, especially in proximity to the girl you wanna bang and she catches you wrecking shit up like a beast, her attraction for you will grow immensely (women love men who women love, namsayin).

Then all you have to do is re-approach your girl and seduce her.

Title	got handled.
Author	pre_nerf_infestor
Upvotes	163
Comments	97
Date	April 21, 2013 3:09 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1cs3y5/got_handled/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/got-handled.1351035 https://theredarchive.com/post/1351035

Comments