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[–]Ebonic 155 points156 points157 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think what needs to be taught is HOW to be a high value guy. If you put in the work everyday to be a high value guy, you’ll know what you deserve. If you’re a lazy slob, you might have a harder time internalizing it because you’ll know it’s not true. Be a high value guy and attract high value women.
[–]TheGreatConst 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The thing is - value is subjective. And people decide your value based on your behavioral patterns. It is just instinct for any social animal, including humans. This is especially true in the context of seduction when you and the girl don't really know each other much and are from different social circles.
If you are a handsome millionaire with an attractive body who travels around the world and you will approach a random girl and directly tell her those facts - she wouldn't jump on your cock. On the contrary, she will consider it an attempt to impress her (which it is), and trying to impress someone is proof of your lower value. Telling someone how high value you are is a low-value behavior - even if everything you say is the true and "objectively" you are high-value guy. Women attracted to objective high-value only when they learned about it from the outsider's perspective, not from you. In the context of seduction being objectively high-value doesn't mean much - your behavior is the key. You can be lazy slob, act high-value and it will get you girls. Or you can be super-successful, but act low-value and be rejected. Eventually, it is about how "thirsty" and "needy" you are. As long as you are non-needy and confident it doesn't matter much if you are objectively attractive or successful.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Which leads to the great uncomfortable truth of seduction:
If I've got a broken leg, it doesn't matter how hard I try, I'm not beating anyone in a race. If anything, running makes things worse. I need to heal.
Same with seduction. Approach and game are not substitutes for therapy and they will not fix a big black hole in your heart. In fact, they could make it worse.
[–]AmethystBabez 22 points23 points24 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Love this!!! Thank you!! I just had a conversation with my friend about a guy who doesn't respect me and my body.
[–]temptationaus 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Glad it could help!
[–]intelectualycurious 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There’s a difference between being high-value and having baseline self-respect.
Run away from entitled people who don’t respect your time.
[–]temptationaus 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Having self respect leads to being of higher value.
Completely agree!
[–]grrinchas 56 points57 points58 points 6 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link
I don't know. This high value shit, fucks my inner game.
In fact, all this High and Low value mindset is wrong and incorrect.
It provides a seed for growing a BIG EGO. As well as devalue women, and look at them as inferior species. Also, this mindset starts from bad place, such as your insecurities, anger towards women, and so on.
Better mindset is: Everyone is equal.
This mindset avoids pitfalls of (High/Low value mindset). In addition, it provides a seed to treat everyone equally, talk with them equally whether is homeless or a queen. It makes you to be friendly and open. Overall, it is much better.
So no, neither I am high value nor she is high value. There are no values. We are all equal.
Sometimes we have treat someone differently, then we do it not because we consider ourselves high or low, but for different reasons.
E.g, if someone disrespects you, then you don’t smile, like you would do in usually case, but make him to apologise. You treated him differently not because he is lower than you but because he disrespected you.
You do not need High/Low mindset to justify your actions. You can always find other reasons.
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 29 points30 points31 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I think you misunderstood the post. I agree with what you said in general, but I also think this is not the case.
Having strong inner value means self esteem, and confidence as a consequence. However it doesn’t seeing a lower value into others.
My inner value is independent from others’ value, but at the same time I seek for people of equal/better value. This means I’m going to avoid networking with broken people.
Would I fuck a cocaine addicted or an idiot? Maybe yes, in terms of ONS or FWB. Would I date a person like that seeking for potential relationship? no, No, NO!
It’s all about self-esteem/respect, seeking for people that reciprocates esteem/respect.
[–]temptationaus 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agreed mate.
Comes back to knowing what you deserve, what you want and not letting someone else’s perceived value of you effect that.
If you want to a let a girl treat you like a doormat then sure go ahead but if she tries to walk all over me she’s going to be straight to the curb.
Give respect, earn respect.
[–]grrinchas 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
I don’t agree.
You should not date an idiot because you think you are higher value. But,
You should not date an idiot because you don’t like her.
You should not surround yourself with “broken” people because they are lower. But,
You should not surround yourself with “broken” people because they don’t help you to grow.
[–]temptationaus 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Mate you’re completely misreading this post.
This is about inner game and mindset, not how you treat others.
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
What I seek is what I like. I like people which have value that fits my standards and definition.
Broken people don’t help me grow because pf low value, that’s why I avoid them.
What I might fuck is totally different because it doesn’t mean I need to chase an idiot to fuck her.
[–]shalabha 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"what i might fuck" you're literally showing that your mindset of high/low value is affecting the way you see people
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
everyone has "lens" to see and value people in a way or another.
what makes the difference is what you value, how and when.
so, the meaning of my comment is: I might have casual sex for several reasons with almost anyone that attracts me in some way (ex: look) because in a casual setting I might have less stricter standards, but I'm not going to chase if a much wider range of my standards aren't met.
[–]juanappleseed 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Everyone is not equal in value. Wishful thinking. Do you desire the 400lb woman like you do the model? If not, then they aren't equal. Obvious
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I never stated that people is equal in value.
The 400lb woman might be an excellent overall person, while the model might be an asshole. This means that I might have a good friendship with the former, and desire sex from the latter while avoiding any kind of romantic/friendly relationship.
[–]juanappleseed 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The 400lb woman will definitely not be an overall excellent person. The 400lb precludes her from being overall excellent lmao
[–]FrenCan316 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I mean I get where you're coming from about treating everyone with equal respect, outwardly. But on an internal basis I completely disagree. We're just animals on a savannah. Even if you're a respectful woke guy, people will try to shit on you and disrespect you. Hold others to standards on the basis of how you consider yourself (hopefully high value). You're being egoist about how nice and egalitarian you are. It's basically impossible that you treat everyone the same. Your baseline can be to treat everyone with respect but you definitely treat some people better than that.
[–]temptationaus 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
At the end of the day we are here for #1 - ourselves. As harsh as it sounds it’s true in every part of our life
[–]grrinchas -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It’s nothing to do with treating everyone equally. You can’t treat everyone equally all the times. It’s not the point.
The point is, when you treat someone NOT equally, you do this not because they are High or Low value, but for different reasons.
[–]Moikepdx 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Perhaps you should re-read the original post. Nowhere did OP say that you should treat anyone else badly, or think poorly of them. Having a positive sense of self-worth does not denigrate others. It is not a zero-sum game where recognizing value in yourself means lowering the value of others.
I understand what you are saying, but it is completely irrelevant to the idea being shared. If you are conflating recognizing self-worth with a feeling of superiority, that's on you.
[–]temptationaus 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Don’t take this the wrong way - completely agree that everyone is equal.
However, I think the mindset of being high value is completely necessary. It will stop you being a doormat, it will stop you being needy and it will stop insecurity.
For example if you’re in a low value mindset and down on confidence and a girl ghosts you, you’re going to chase her hard, wonder what what you could’ve done differently (which is OK to a degree) and at the end of the day the only one who suffers is you and your confidence. If you’re in a high value mindset and up on confidence and a girl ghosts you, you’re going to let her do what she needs to, move on and open new connections and if she comes back then that’s a bonus but you’re not worrying and acting needy.
I don’t think you can say a mindset is wrong as such - if you don’t agree with it or don’t subscribe to it that’s fine, doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
We are all here at the end of the day to develop connections and if a high value mindset helps that then so be it!
Thanks for the feedback.
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agree.
[–]grrinchas 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Mindset is the most powerful think what humans have. Therefore it is important to make it right.
A person who chase a woman already has this High/Low mindset. So your solution is just to flip it around. Although it helps, but as I mentioned, you get different problems, one of them is a Big Ego. Which I noticed on some PUA beginners and on myself personally.
So, solution is to change this mindsets to everyone is equal. Then she won’t be higher value. And you don’t need to chase her. If she ghosts you, again it’s fine, will find someone else.
[–]zaratustra27 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
This is a very controversial topic because it often overlaps with politics, but the bottom line of the high/low value thing doesn't come from resentment towards women or trying to artificially grow your ego. It's true many people adopt the high value mindset for those reasons but they are wrong and they will never really be HV thinking that way.
Why do High Value demonstrations work? Because they take account of the highly disputed fact we live in a hierarchy, and women are naturally attracted to men who belong to the top tier of this hierarchy. Of course this goes against what modern PC culture says, but PC culture has been here the last 50 years and the hierarchy existed before men became sentient beings.
Please notice if you diminish someone's value, it doesn't increase yours but may make you look more valuable by comparison and sometimes it's all that you need. In fact, many Seduction techniques fall in the category of "Fake it 'till you make it" and they work and can start a virtuous cycle that could actually increase your position in the hierarchy, but most experts agree you must make real improvements in your life along with practicing your Seduction techniques: Go to the gym, take care of yourself, start doing interesting things, not because what women think but for yourself, even go to therapy if you need.
[–]Tutsks 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
No, this is nonsense and misunderstands the point.
To make it simple, value is an absolute proposition with regards to how valuable a girl would be in general, barring weird fetishes.
Its not complicated, and when people talk about high and low value, it conveys a mental representation of a concept related to supply and demand.
Simply put, there are many, many more suitors, than desirable mates. That's it. Just keep an idea of what kind of person you want, and act accordingly.
But, it applies solely to mating. Women one is not attracted to are still women, they still have cute/hot friends, and they can still be great friends.
Point is, you overcomplicate it. Being higher value is not a license to be a dick, and in most scenes, being a dick will itself make someone's value drop. High/low value is just an idealized construct of the ideal person one would want.
For me, a HVW, is fit, in shape, fun, attractive, loyal, interesting, has her own money, dependable, supportive, and shared my hobbies. Extra points if blonde or redhead I guess, but the point is, things vary from person to person.
On the other hand, say, as per female dating strategy, a HVM is one who commits, gives them money, and puts with their shit.
If you look from this perspective than yes, nothing is wrong with that.
But people tend to understand this high/low value thing in different ways. I did, cause I didn’t study economics, and I bet most people either. And if you look from my perspective about what that means, than this mindset is sinister.
[–]SmoothPrimal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This 100%.
I went through “High Value” mindset and it just doesn’t work.
It just leads one to overcompensate in order to demonstrate the high value image you have built in your mind.
The constructive approach in my experience is not “high value,” but to be “high quality.” Seems like the same thing but to me it made a whole lot of difference.
[–]Achilles68 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Could you elaborate a bit on why it made such a difference? Is it because it makes you see people less as numbers (values) and more like the individual (with unique qualities) they are?
Essentially you're saying the same, but why did it make such a difference for you?
[–]SmoothPrimal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah something like that! Like this example could clarify.
HIGH VALUE - Insecure approach She’s hot. I need to show how high value I am to prove I am high value. Let me interact with people “for value.” I need to show how cool I am.
HIGH QUALITY - Secure approach She’s hot. I’ll engage in high quality conversations and be a high quality human being. I actively evaluate if THEY are high value because I like valuable people.
That it just scratching the surface since this perspective for me is tied to a lot of other social value variables like investment, social class, social awareness. Where essentially I can sense who is actually high value within seconds of meeting them whether they are attractive or not based on a variety of subtle signals.
Not sure if that made it clearler lol.
[–]MrMemper 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is delusional. People are not equal. Human value on a base level is the same with regard to basic human rights but you’re delusional if you think you have the same value as someone who is honest with himself, has high integrity, has worked through his demons, has earned the respect of his peers, has developed high level traits in humanity, philosophy, science business or sports. Michael Jordan, arguably one of the best basketball players of all time is not equal to you. He has higher value, higher buying and selling capabilities (especially in his prime). He then tried to play baseball. He sucked ass. Why? Because he’s not equal. Or look at nature. Do all trees survive to spread seed? No. Do all wolves survive to procreate? No.
I’m sorry bud but men and women are not equal. Men and men are not equal and males and Men are definitely not equal.
[–]grrinchas 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Of course we are not equal in that regard. Everything what you earn during your life time is different from person to person. But I am talking about different equality.
Yes. M. Jordan and me are not equal when it comes to fame, and he will get paid more if he will play basketball, than me.
But, when he and I were born, we were equal. Both of us had a right to be treated the same way. The same with women and men. As human beings they are equal and should be treated the same.
All this High/Low value mindset is poisonous. From this shit all other shit comes, like racism, feminism, rich or poor etc.
The problem is that people mix their differences with things which should be considered equal (bad, good, right, wrong). Just because I am famous, doesn't mean that I am better person. Just because he killed someone, doesn't mean he is "low" quality person.
[–]MrMemper 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Agreed. As I have mentioned before that we are equal in basic human rights. As babies, we all are equal unless we look at genetic markers and then it becomes evident that we are not at all equal.
I’m sorry but there are higher value people and lower value people. Someone with integrity, who has high standards for himself, is honest and hard working, contributes to his life, to his friends and family, the world, is of higher value than someone who thinks poorly of themselves, is lazy, does nothing but consume, brings people down, complains, looks for handouts, has no integrity and offers very little to others is in fact a low value person. Are they completely low value? No. I could probably find something worthwhile in them. It’s just who I am.
Now I will agree completely that the mindset of having high/low value is poisonous. This is essentially belief. Blowing smoke up your own ass. What creates a real sense of high value in the self is becoming honest with yourself. Not bullshitting yourself. Not bullshitting other people. Setting goals and working hard toward them. Loving the people that are important to you. Having boundaries and enforcing them. Facing adversity in a positive way. Doing work. Becoming congruent such that your words, actions and thoughts are all in a line. This person who makes this effort is of high value. Why? Because they created it and it benefits themselves and others. Those that don’t, are not at the same value. Sorry.
Simply tricking your own mind into believing you are high value when you’re lazy, low self esteem, angry, resentful and depressed is absolutely poisonous. Poisonous to the self as well as everyone around you.
Further, value is determined by who is “buying”. McDonalds and Burger King both say they are the best at making burgers. It’s only true depending on who you choose to buy from. Then you are saying X has more value than Y. When I step to a woman it’s just the same. Female X has more value to me than female Y and there are reasons for that. But until I determine what those are and make actions based on my perceptions then neither female has any value to me. Point being is that value is a perception in this case and is not inherent just because they exist.
[–]TheGreatConst 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
It isn't about being superior to others. It is similar to the relationship between a parent and the child. Parents are above the child in the hierarchy, parents take care of the child and child should respect his parents and, to some extent, obey them. Biologically relationships between a man and a woman were similar to that - man was responsible for protecting his woman from others and for providing her with resources, while a woman was responsible for giving sex and taking care of the children. A man takes care of a woman, a woman takes care of children. In sexual relationships the man takes an active and dominant role, while the woman takes a passive and submissive role - this is why high-value mindset works and equal doesn't (unless you want just to find friends). For some couples roles are reversed, some men prefer to take a passive role with women, but this is an exception and not a rule. Even in gay couples, there are distinct roles. And with roles comes some sort of hierarchy. But this hierarchy is more about sex and sexual value, it isn't about humiliating someone or treating them like shit. You can respect your kids and be kind to them, it doesn't change the fact that you are above them in the social hierarchy. It means that they should obey you, but have no influence over your decisions. They depend on you, but it doesn't work vice versa. Same with women - you shouldn't depend on them, but make them depend on you. And when you consider yourself high-value you do exactly this. You are fine either with her or not, but she loses a lot by not being with you.
[–]grrinchas -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Maybe it is, maybe it is not. But, I and most readers will understood that it is about superiority.
When you say High/Low value. This is what I understand, superior or not.
When you say parent/child hierarchy. Then I understand, that this is nothing to do with superiority.
[–]MoonMoonHD 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Everyone is not equal though.
[–]jaxmurr -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women are lower value.
[–]musicchick112 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
I think everyone is reading way too much into this. I think what OP means when saying one should have a high value internally is that they should have respect for themselves and not to forget that they are deserving of someone who truly accepts and loves them for who they are. It's not that deep people. Unless it is, that is NOT the vibe I got from this post. Having a sense of high value simply means just knowing your worth and not getting too caught up in what you did wrong.... why someone doesn't like you... blah blah blah. The right person will come along. Having confidence and self-respect is not arrogant... it's not something that needs to be projected onto other people. It's a state of being.
[–]temptationaus 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Absolutely correct!
[–]sw4g3n3r 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I agree with you but my problem is that I am not sure if I will meet someone that I think is as perfect for me as her. I don't meet that many girls and I feel like all the girls I'm interested in are already in a relationship.
So when I'm alone, it destroys me because I want to let her be a part of my past and I feel like I won't meet someone that great again.
[–]Getupagain29 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Dude I was in that exact same frame of mind after my last break up. It was something like the "perfect love" for me, relationship ended because of things I couldn´t do shit about (her family and religious beliefs). I was DEVASTEDED, this dark rainly cloud was my companion for 1 year and 9 months. It took me that long to realize that I´m only torturing myself, constantly replaying corrupted memories in my head. In a way I also saw my suffering as an interpretation of my ongoing love to her - but dude, that stuff gets you nowhere. Heartbreak IS a central concept in life, break-ups, death, dissapointments..It WILL happen, and to live a fullfilled life you have to adapt. You´re allowed to cry, you´re allowed to feel depressed, you´re allowed to feel hopeless - and this stuff takes its time - but at some point you should let the past go, focus on the present and future.
Here you got a quote that became very important to me: "One of the hardest things I´ve had to understand is that closure comes from within. Espacially difficult if you´ve been betrayed by someone you love, bc you feel like you gotta let them know the pain they caused, but the peace you seek can only be given to you by you."
Stay strong my dude, life sucks now, but better times WILL come. Eventually you´ll allow yourself to experience them again.
[–]Getupagain29 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Nice post. Just ended a chat with a girl politely, it just was a pretty boring conversation, so I wished her all the best - she comes back at me "Well if you think our conversation is boring, maybe you could´ve said something interesting." Like I alone was responsible for an interesting conversation while she gives me next to nothing? Nah fuck that, that´s not worth my time.
Not everything is going to work it is what it is. I recently had been going back and forth with this girl over the phone who I knew, we would talk plenty which I didn’t want but was a ‘necessary evil’. Kept saying she wanted to hang out so I would try and organise but get nothing - first time I let it slide with a warning, second time I ignored and moved on. Been 3 weeks now no contact - will see if she comes back but either way I’m not holding my breath!
Thanks for the comment mate much appreciated!
[–]MrMemper 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok. But I have issue with the word “deserve”. Nobody in life deserves shit beyond basic human rights. If you’re talking about respect, nobody “deserves” respect. I don’t care if I am the King of Zamunda. If I haven’t behaved in a way that encourages people to give me respect then they won’t give it to me no matter how much I believe I deserve it.
If you want respect I look at it this way: imagine a man you would pledge your fidelity to. Who you’d bend a knee to. Not out of conformity (judges, police officers, top businessmen, etc) or out of fear (again, police, badass fuckers, etc). But out of admiration of character. What traits and behaviors would he have? Think about it. Strive to be this man and most people will respect you. It mostly has to do with being an honest man. This goes deeper than simply telling the truth. It’s more of a state of being.
Respect isn’t deserved ever. Nothing is that must be earned.
[–]Surbay 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks ! I needed this after getting crushed by a girl I fell for.
[–]Throwaway7907901 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’m going to get downvoted for this but here’s what I think.
You can’t be high value without backing it up mate.
Sure you can tell yourself lies all you want. But unless you’re rich, famous, or both, no sane girl will ever think you’re really high value.
[–]ParaLegalese -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Actually if guys asked what they did wrong they might learn something🤷♀️
[–]Spartan917x -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Damn i thought this was david goggins’ insta for a sec
[–]InnerMonologist -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But how can I remember that when not a single girl would swipe right on me or atleast give me the time of the day
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