Transitioning out of the nice guy mindset

flaneuric · 2010-06-09T23:43:55+00:00

I have some advice that I didn't learn until it actually became true for me (in my 30's). Treat all girls like they are 5's, meaning that you'd fuck them but really could give two shits either way. Even if they are 10's. But don't overdo it.

Give fake smiles as though you're trying to be nice but don't really care
Subtly check out hot girls in the area but try to get away with it (they'll catch you, good)
If you have plans and they say something about backing out, say "Actually that would work because I have to ...."
Never say sorry for anything. Just "oops"
Convince yourself that you don't want a girlfriend
If you don't get sex after a few meetings, start drifting your interest to someone else (really, they'll come around)
If they ask you for anything, ask for something back. (ie, Her: "Wanna come over and do my homework?" You: "Do you have alcohol?")
Feign "cutesy" interest in her friends "She's kinda hot" (then move off the subject)
If she says something you don't care about, pretend you were thinking about something else then talk about what you were thinking as though she said nothing
Ask her for things that you can do yourself, just to see if she'll do it. If she doesn't, playfully giver her shit but don't back down, let it go if she won't do it don't bring it up everytime like a dork.
Never tell her she's hot/beautiful unless she's your girlfriend or has a complex about being fat etc
Don't offer to pay for anything, in fact, ask them to pay for your coffee in exchange for a "man love" (then playfully/forcefully wrap you arm around their waist and pull them close, but let go right away and do something else like it never happened)

I've had sex with playmates, models, actresses, singers you've heard of, and was married to a stripper (at the same time). Most of this happened in SoBe/NYC/LA. Girl's call me a jerk, but I'm still polite. Last week girl hated me. Over the weekend I had sex with her (after subtly hitting on her friend). Yesterday she "playfully" hinted at threesome with her friend. Too bad I really don't give a shit and would rather play xbox.

kruunch · 2010-06-09T18:49:52+00:00

You have to be willing to risk everything in order to attain greatness. If you want to meet, date and be with a great (your ideal girl), you can't be meek. So be prepared to 'lose' in the short-run in order to win in the long-run.
Depending on how well you know this girl and who she is, determines what you do. The community tries to game girls who don't deserve it or don't need it. If it's a first date with someone you've spoken to for awhile, finding a meeting place isn't a big deal. It's hard to state the what, but that's for you to figure out. Personally, I'd do something with her, not just meet up. DO something, so it's memorable and you learn stuff amidst actually hanging out. You know her and you, so drum up some ideas. Find common ground. If none exists, then aside from wanting to bang her, what other reason is there to hang?
Go with the mindset of making more female friends FOR YOURSELF. I'm of the firm belief guys under 30 shouldn't be "playing marriage" (because that's what dating is, eventually). Men are setting themselves up for traps by misleading women. Most guys under 30 don't want anything serious. If you do want something serious, then you don't blow your wad/wallet on an elaborate date. Kick the tires some. Do inexpensive things. Don't set the norm of blowing money. Learn to be CREATIVE about what you do. Heck if you have your own place you could buy something cheap and do it together. Arts, crafts, make wine or beer, go to a zoo, whatever.
The frame from which you peer into this world is in having fun, meeting women, and making a connection with a woman. We lump ALOT of pressure onto the first date and we shouldn't. I take a long range view and see if the girl is worth me investing that much of myself to be "her knight in shining armor," as most women yearn to find. Let her show that/demonstrate it. Too few women today are actually the prize they believe themselves to be. And I'm not being misogynistic on this.
Listen to her language and learn to sense her emotions by truly listening and mirroring, repeating, and using similar communication styles.
Screw hard and fast rules. Seriously. If I want to pay for a woman's date, I will. If I don't, I won't. I consider it a sunk cost anyways. I don't get wrapped up in details. I'm not going to micromanage relationship, short or long-term. I don't buy random girls at bars drinks. But I also don't care about buying a date something if I want to. You have to cultivate your own attitude on everything, because in the end, that's what a woman wants. She wants to know you stand out from the masses and don't need affirmation from anyone, least of all her.
As an example of a prior GF I had that I'd spoke to for a very long time before dating, we drove separately and met a local ice cream stand near her place as it was the summer. I ended up bringing my puppy along for the ride as it was a very country-like locale. We parked next to each other and seeing as it was just ice cream, it wasn't any great debate to pay for it. I have held the firm and fast rule of paying for things IF I invite people to join in on it, especially women. Needless to say, we took small steps on our path to a long-term relationship, such as short meals at fun places (this embeds it in her mind that you're thoughtful, creative, and can make plans; plans make a woman feel special, because you carved out a piece of your life for her).
On another occasion, I went on a blind date to a bar and it was horrid. The girl was not as she presented herself to be and I couldn't wait to leave. I paid the bill and got out of their as fast as possible. I know women will remark "free meal" in some cases, but it's dumb to make dates like that. I chose the bar because it was a neutral spot and would take the edge off any nervousness.
You could also do mini golf or something active, like pool, bowling, or whatever. Physical activity, even light, has the incident of bonding 2 people together and create deeper attraction. I wouldn't recommend going too far, as it can snap back and put her ASD up and force her to not see you again, because her actions may be out of sync with her identity.
Each girl is different and you should arrange your meetings accordingly.
If a girl likes you, she calls you. She randomly text messages you. She makes alternate plans if things don't line up. It's no different than a friend, but the relationship has the added element of it "being on fire/attraction."
Don't spend alot of time on the phone. As it is, I hate texting and msging and phone calls. Let her look forward to that IN PERSON. Be TOO busy, this way you can weed out flakes and people that are intolerant of your life, freedom and being a part of it. Enjoying your own life is one way to attract more people of quality into it, as everyone wants to be around and a part of a great person's life. Most people avoid recluses and negative types. If a girl is gabbing away, then let her. But don't you gab away. I let girls gab away if they want and I keep my commentary short, brief, and without advice unless it's warranted or requested (such as men things, like buying a car and such). Then I often get call backs and thank yous and more calls. Not all of them they want, but I am also just spreading good cheer and spirit.
Honestly don't worry about Jerks getting HBS. And by jerks I mean LOSERS. No job, criminals, NOT men in the least who are posing. I'm a jerk, but I'm not a loser. If you asked any X, she'd say the same; he's a jerk. But I also know such a woman can be a bitch, and thus it's tit for tat. It's about being a man and having your balls; channel images of men if need be. If a girl starts shit, correct her. Most HBS that like REAL losers end in bad places in life; unmarried, kids out of wedlock, poverty, drama, abuse, etc. Those kinds of women also need REAL highs and lows of emotional rollercoasters, something I won't play.
How would you be around a female cousin, X-girlfriend, sister, etc? Act accordingly. No different really. Same comfort level.

Good luck and Godspeed~

intjpua · 2010-06-09T15:40:29+00:00

I'm actually thinking of telling her to make her way to our meeting place. The thing is, wouldn't she get turned off by that?

Only pick her up if it doesn't waste too much time for you.

Also, should conversations on the phone (or even online chats) be short and to the point (that is, call to just setup a date)?

Talk for as long as the conversation is enjoyable for you.

I also wanted to ask about the concept of 'push-pull'. I know it involves teasing and then is followed by a compliment (backhanded or not) and vice versa. But for me, I don't know how to follow up after a pull or a push. I end up being too harsh and can't recover, or too nice and sound lame.

Don't consciously try to do push pull. It happens naturally in playful conversation.

kruunch · 2010-06-11T00:15:21+00:00

Hey man, it sounds like you're making great progress on transitioning out of 'nice guy mindset' and the lifestyle of an AFC into that of a PUA. Keep going, the women appreciate it!

Here's what's confusing me -- I was brought up to think that picking up a girl from her place for a date is the way to go. Buy her dinner, etc etc. But with this upcoming date, I'm actually thinking of telling her to make her way to our meeting place. The thing is, wouldn't she get turned off by that? I kinda feel bad for making her drive all the way to our meeting place when I can just pick her up and drive her myself. I don't wanna jeopardize a potential date.

We were all brought up to think that showing up at her door with flowers was the way to go. As someone on here said, *"Everyone is trying to overcome some kind of early indoctrination." *

Keep the "Prize" mentality in mind, she should be working to spend time with you, not the other way around. Absolutely do not feel guilty about making her drive over to your place, your time is more valuable. The attitude to take always is "I'm very busy with my awesome life"- so she needs to swing by and meet you at your place. You'll only be jeopardizing the date if act like a man who is lower value than her, instead of higher- that's what being the prize means. Now, You'll share your car from there. Now this is key, when she arrives don't go outside but tell her to come in for a few minutes while you look for your wallet/keys/cat, you can even have a pre-drink. Show her around a bit, but keep it short. The idea is that she should start getting used to seeing the inside of your place ;) Now, go on the date, and then come back to your place (she has to, because her car is there) and walk immediately into your place with the expectation that she will follow. *Never * do the awkward doorstep goodbye, that's for lame people who live at home. She's now inside your place, and because she's seen it before should be down for that drink and massaging your 'sore neck.'

I think my problem is I think too much about how I would come across to her.

This is the opposite of being "The Prize" - that is higher value. By subcommunicating you might be lower value she will treat you like it, and drop you. You are higher value! You can choose to drop her or keep her around- you are the dropper, not the droppee. High value guys barely give a thought to the women in their lives, and the women are thus completely thrilled when he does even the most remotely thoughtful gesture. (Compare this to the nice-guy dynamic. The high value dynamic is much less effort and produces superior results.)

But see, I really dig this girl and I'm afraid that I might come across as if I'm not interested if I didn't make the effort of picking her up.

See, this is all wrong. You are not making effort to be with her because she needs to make effort to be with you- you are awesome, you are living an exciting life, you have a penis! Always act like your time is very valuable to you (it is.) Now, you are going to show her you are interested, but not by making big efforts for her (wrong way and communicates low value) but by clearly indicating your sexual interest strongly through much kino. You are constantly ramping up the sexual tension by flirting with her all week before you see her, so start the kino as soon as you see her everytime, such as with a hug, touching, punching her lightly in the shoulder, etc. In this way, there is no confusion on her part that you are interested in her sexually (women hate sexual ambiguity) and that she had better work to stay around a higher value male.

Also, should conversations on the phone (or even online chats) be short and to the point (that is, call to just setup a date)? I normally would try to hold a conversation as long as I could, but I feel like that by doing that, I'm turning into a 'friend' with all the chats with the girl. My logic is that, long conversations help me get to know the girl and her likes and dislikes (to see if we're compatible).

Stick to short and infrequent texts, less ways for you to screw things up. You are busy and you don't have time to waste texting 100 times to some girl or chatting all day on the phone. DO keep it light, fun and flirty always avoid serious topics at all costs, if it starts to veer into something serious switch topics abruptly right away - these are mood killers. Set some limit to the number of texts you're going to do to sub-communicate that busyness. Personally, my rule is not to text a girl (I'm not already sleeping with) anymore than once a day. It sub-communicates that I'm busy, there are few opportunities to screw it up as I'm working to set up the next date, it keeps her guessing and in suspense, and it really does free up my valuable time. It also provides me plenty of time to think of my reply. I can keep a woman in suspense all day by not texting her until 9 at night. Stick to short and infrequent texts, keep 'em flirty.

I also wanted to ask about the concept of 'push-pull'. I know it involves teasing and then is followed by a compliment (backhanded or not) and vice versa. But for me, I don't know how to follow up after a pull or a push. I end up being too harsh and can't recover, or too nice and sound lame.

This just takes time to calibrate. I have a few stock lines I like to throw out and I try to learn from the banter of the better guys I know. I've offended plenty of women trying to find that right balance, don't worry about it.

Hope that helps, Good luck, man!

m0nk3yb0y · 2010-06-09T18:26:12+00:00

Logistics!

If she drives then it is less likely you'll be going back to her place.

Has she been to your place yet? I'd invite her over, have her park at your place and then drive her to the 'meeting place'. When the date is over she has to go back to your place for her car...

2010-06-10T02:16:12+00:00

If you are reasonably confident that there is some spark between you two, tell her that you know of a great place near your house and ask her to meet you at your place first. When she comes by, invite her in and say you need to put on your shoes/socks/whatever and will be ready in a second. Get ready and go on your merry way.

I like this method for a variety of reasons:

1) It means that your house is a known quantity to the girl, and therefore something not scary.

2) It forces you to clean your place up.

3) If the girl is running late or flakes on you then you haven't really lost anything.

4) It also means that your place is the natural ending point after a night out.

I should also point out that this method works 10x better when you have a place thats damn sexy and within walking distance to an area with a good nightlife.

TheUltimateBeta · 2010-06-09T20:49:48+00:00

Let's put this argument to rest. Trust me women DON'T crave assholes. I've had plenty of (beautiful) female friends that I've gotten to know very well. We've talked about everything and bonded emotionally to the point that these girls have shared VERY intimate details about their lives. One common denominator about the most attractive of these women is that they DETEST men that are jerks. They've fallen for guys that must have seemed nice initially but once these guys reveal what jerks they are they break my friends hearts. And it's typically by cheating on them, neglecting them, or being verbally abusive.
They don't like this behavior. Believe me when I say these tears are real. And it breaks my heart to see them treated this way. I love my friends in my own special way. It's not easy consoling them either. When one of these jerks hurts them, it doesn't matter how many times I tell them how amazing and beautiful they are; that ANY guy would be so lucky to have them. They are down on their selves and only time will heal the wounds.

But I digress. There's nothing wrong with being a nice guy. Just don't be a pushover. Be assertive. From the moment you meet them assert yourself as the guy that WON'T be an asshole. Let them know that you are willing to be there for her through thick and thin. The first 10 minutes you spend with a new girl focus on DHV to show her that you as a man will cater to her. Buy her a drink. Buy her shots, but show her you're NOT interested in using her for sex. If you're in a big city I'll give you a pro tip. I carry around subway fare cards loaded with $3.00. After I've chatted up a girl, before I even ask for her number I'll let her know that if she needs a ride home I've got a free subway pass for her and her friends to make sure they don't drive drunk and make it home safetly. I've never had a girl say no. (to the subway pass)

asocialnetwork · 2010-06-09T15:39:41+00:00

I would love to hear some feedback on this post. I worry about the exact same stuff. I sometimes think I shouldn't make myself completely available and go out of my way to pick her up, go on a date when she suggest but instead come over a little more assertive and think about myself more. That way I come across as less desperate and more of a 'prize'

Marcooo · 2010-06-09T20:33:10+00:00

But see, I really dig this girl and I'm afraid that I might come across as if I'm not interested if I didn't make the effort of picking her up

Give her the choice. If she says yes, she'll need to thank you for something ;-)

Title	Transitioning out of the nice guy mindset
Author	kruunch
Upvotes	16
Comments	39
Date	June 9, 2010 3:14 PM UTC (16 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/cd5wk/transitioning_out_of_the_nice_guy_mindset/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/transitioning-out-of-the-nice-guy-mindset.1310546 https://theredarchive.com/post/1310546

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