Why ApproachAnxiety.com anti-nice posts are wrong and flawed.

insickness · 2011-01-21T16:54:59+00:00

Hey Guys, I'm Eric Disco from ApproachAnxiety.com, the original author of this article.

First of all, thanks for the feedback. I love criticism and I love Reddit. I'm honored that we are even having this discussion.

I wanted to clarify a few things about my "Ode to Nice."

If you met me in person, you would probably characterize me as a cool guy, maybe some would even say I'm a “nice” guy. I will sometimes hold the door for my friends so they can go through first, and I’ll also sometimes do this for women I'm dating. I'm not really what you'd call an asshole.

But there are very specific reasons why the word "Nice" is being propped up like a tin can so we can shoot holes in it.

Some of the disagreement here is semantics. If you do something really special for your mother on her birthday, many would characterize this as "nice."

I would characterize this as thoughtful.

I’m not saying you can’t be caring, thoughtful and loving. In fact, these are required and necessary in order to build a positive, mutual relationship.

But being “nice” tends to hold a lot of guys back. It did for me.

One of the best models for looking at relationships with women is Push/Pull. Push/Pull not a perfect model, but looking at these two polarities can provide a lot of insight into what "works" to develop relationships, including what you do when you first meet a woman.

Push can be understood as all those things that build tension, attraction, uncertainty, and unpredictability. This includes being playful, childlike and flirting. It's also conveying an independence and aloofness, seeming like you're slightly out of reach.

Pull can be understood as building an emotional connection, showing affection or intensity. You’re making her feel special by showing genuine appreciation in her as an individual. You're giving her space to express who she is, separate from every other girl in the world.

Both these polarities are what drives the relationship to hotter, deeper and more meaningful places. Sometimes you push, sometimes you pull.

"Nice" accomplishes neither of these.

When it comes to push, being "Nice" can easily let the air out of the tires. It can reduce critical tension in the worst way possible. It squanders valuable and fleeting opportunities.

There will inevitably be a reduction in tension. But there are much much more productive ways to lower that tension such as physical contact. You can tell her how you feel or what you’re thinking about. You can show interest in her as a person, asking her questions and finding out who she is.

But if you are too “nice” you may come across as too eager to approve of every word she's saying. When you truly do show interest in her as a person, it won't come across as sincere because you've been buttering her up all this time.

And chances are she won't even feel inclined to share these meaningful things about herself if she feels she's already won your approval too early on.

Men with social anxiety allow themselves to be meek under the guise of "niceness." I know, I've been there myself. I'm the one who played it safe, always followed the rules hoping that it would get me what I wanted: an intense, powerful relationship with a very attractive woman I was madly in love with.

Instead, I watched the world pass me by. I wore blinders. I tried to believe in the fact that I was a "great guy," when in reality I was a passive guy. I loathed power dynamics in social groups and personal relationships because I didn't understand them and didn't know how to affect them myself.

I had no control of anything, so I consoled myself with the fact that I was a good person.

But I wasn’t even a good person. I succeeded in hurting the women I dated because I couldn’t be man enough to go for what I wanted. I couldn’t maintain relationships at the level of closeness I desired and instead gave in to what she wanted, or worse--what I thought she wanted. I put her feelings before mine to the point where I couldn’t separate my own feelings from hers.

Holy shit, that must have been annoying for her.

You can't live your life putting the feelings of everyone else before yours because it doesn't work.

But the most problematic aspect of being "nice" surrounds internal inhibition.

You go to talk to a girl, and you can't because it’s not the nice and proper thing to do.

Or you do start to talk to an attractive woman and you end up putting her on a pedestal. You may even logically not care about this woman and even know you shouldn't be doing this, but your body locks up and won't let you be anything besides super nice.

Understanding that “nice” is not working for you is the first step in realizing your own inhibition and how you can start to get past it. In this respect, being nice is not just a lack of physical confidence. It’s worse. It’s an insidious excuse to not take initiative and instead, just accept the inability to express what you feel.

This is the reason, whenever I find myself being 'Nice,' an alarm goes off in my head. I don't automatically transform myself into an asshole like a werewolf on a full moon, but I do look objectively at the situation.

And chances are, at almost any instance, there are a lot better things I could be doing than being “nice.”

frogma · 2011-01-21T03:16:46+00:00

I think the main lesson to be learned is that it's bad to be the supplicating, insecure, nervously nice guy, and better to be the confident, alpha, assertively nice guy.

MaysonNSS · 2011-01-21T04:51:12+00:00

There is a big difference between being "nice" and being a supplicator. Now.. let's play devil's advocate here..

Ever hear of a shy, insecure guy who girls were like "awww he's sooo cute." and they end up hooking up, YUP... Happens ALL the time.

Levitz · 2011-01-21T12:59:51+00:00

Guys, what would George Clooney do? would he open a door for a lady?

Fuck yes he would, that's all I need

chumpta · 2011-01-21T06:19:58+00:00

being an inconsiderate asshole beats being a polite beta, every time

WekaWaka · 2011-01-21T05:55:37+00:00

Did this really need to be its own post? why not comment in the original thread?

ClevelandSeddit · 2011-01-21T03:46:15+00:00

Way to completely ignore their definition of nice and project your own.

What that website did is extrapolate on their interpretation of what nice is, and how it completely fails in the context of seduction. Not once do they suggest how people should act otherwise; that's all you.

Being nice, by their definition, is NOT a positive characteristic. Being nice, by YOUR definition, may be.

07SS · 2011-01-21T03:28:06+00:00

Moderation.

leevs11 · 2011-01-21T17:44:27+00:00

You can be nice to people, but do not especially nice to a girl you like. Treat her like everyone else.

Being extra nice to a girl you like is being manipulative in order to get sex.

RedErin · 2011-01-21T17:01:43+00:00

I see what you're saying, and I would agree if we lived in a vacuum. But, every single AFC Beta dude is always going on and on about how they're a 'nice guy', and that girls only date assholes. The article is a brutally honest critique of that mindset.

yokhai · 2011-01-21T19:22:26+00:00

Yes, in this case, being "nice" is being a push over.

Don't confuse the verb nice = considerate with the noun "nice guy"

They aren't saying be a jerk, they are saying don't be some sniveling, beta male who gives a girl everything they could ever want before they ask for it.

The confusion come from the ambiguous word for nice. Nice can mean anything. But in this community we call "nice" as being a "nice guy". For the traits you are talking about, that is called being polite and considerate.

2011-01-21T23:10:16+00:00

Empowerment

chebb · 2011-01-21T03:57:18+00:00

The whole point of those posts is to develop alpha characteristics while reducing your beta tendency's. A characteristic of being alpha is being independent and not relying on the approval or acceptance of others to maintain your self esteem.

I think that this is important. Be as nice as you want, it's a healthy characteristic to actively care about other people as it makes you perceptive, but under no circumstances do it to try and get people to like you. If you are only nice to girls because you want to get with them then you are as manipulative as anyone else. On the other hand if you are a nice guy to everyone but because you dislike confrontation and want people to like you, then you have one of the biggest problems associated with a beta.

Being nice is great if you have boundaries and do things because they're right for you, but because so many afcs get abused due to their nice tendencies (often not understanding why they get abused), many pick up sources say it's better to just lose the whole nice approach and get a fresh start, even if it means you're coming off as an asshole for a little bit while you get used to the change.

That's how I see things anyway.

heisenberg149 · 2011-01-21T05:02:43+00:00

Wrong and flawed, except it's true and it works...

2011-01-21T06:07:16+00:00

Actually being nice IS the same as being a pushover. You're confusing being classy / gentlemanly with being nice.

blueshoes · 2011-01-21T13:34:33+00:00

OP: "being nice is not the same as being a pushover. it's ok to be nice."

comments: "you missed the point of the article. being nice is not the same as being a pushover."

do you people know how to read?

LesbianPUA · 2011-01-21T06:11:10+00:00

Haha, you sound like a self-important dick who is "nice" only to make himself feel superior to others.

Title	Why ApproachAnxiety.com anti-nice posts are wrong and flawed.
Author	ClevelandSeddit
Upvotes	28
Comments	42
Date	January 21, 2011 3:01 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/f6862/why_approachanxietycom_antinice_posts_are_wrong/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/why-approachanxietycom-anti-nice-posts-are-wrong.1314767 https://theredarchive.com/post/1314767

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