Wait, this isn't right...

guesses_gender_bot · 2013-12-18T04:01:38+00:00

So I just came here after reading SRS bitch about you guys, so I assumed this would be the male equivalent of the crazies over there. This place just turned...

[–]K-Li 32 points33 points34 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

As it stands, feminists have something of a monopoly on the subject of gender equality. Feminism, and man hating(or male disposability), has been around for a lot longer than this movement's been around, and they have learned how to exploit male guilt, chivalry and misandry pretty well to push or bully their views onto the masses. Generally speaking, they control the discourse. They have the masses on their side from the get go simply for the fact that they represent a female majority(who are still regarded as victims and saints that men want to protect and cater to) and that men's rights is viewed as simply representing men(despite the fact that men's rights advocacy is just one small part of an egalitarian mindset). There's a lot of ignorance and a lot of blind faith, loyalty and fanaticism to feminism, much like you would find for religions/cults.

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/r/MensRights has detractors from a number of sources.

Pro-feminists dislike us because we are a) anti-feminist, b) pro-universality/impartiality, and c) anti-equality of outcome/pro-equality of opportunity.

Pro-traditionalists dislike us because we are a) concerned about rights, b) believe in legal equality between men and women, and c) don't agree with traditionalism.

"Bros" dislike us because we are (accused of being) a) "pussies", b) "weak", and c) "whiny babies".

Oddly enough, the reaction/behaviour of the "Bros" of Reddit does line up with some of the accusations of institutional misogyny that feminists claim exists. Whether it is actual misogyny or simply ignorance and lack of intelligence is not clear, but I can at least understand some of their points, even if I think they advocate for the most psycho of responses. (The equivalent of nuking all of Afghanistan for the actions of a few terrorists.)

[–]needs28hoursaday 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

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[–]needs28hoursaday 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

She was a feminist long before she met me, it takes a fair bit to undo the damage which has been done. People don't understand the movements goals is all, she assumes that it is to oppress women because no one has ever corrected her. Ill often tell her to reverse the gender roles and see how it makes her feel and often she will admit that things are wrong. If she wasn't level headed about it then we might have a problem, but luckily we both keep an open mind.

Also I have to defend the fact that I love watching people play video games on Twitch.tv, to me they are just both things she doesn't understand and its my job to explain it or not care. Its a pity society has looked down on two things I like so much for so long, I'm just happy that I have a girlfriend who is willing to try and change her views.

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[–]theozoph 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Whats even sadder is having to defend it to my girlfriend when she calls it a "misogynist judgmental movement".

Watch out for this one, man. The translation of that quote is : "a movement which wants to take away my privileges, and has the gall to presume that I'm not above judgment, because vagina".

Don't get preachy, and certainly not defensive, but if the situation warrants it just field a few scenarios where the MRM perspective is needed : child custody with unfit mothers, unjust and antiquated alimony laws, failing boys in the educational system, etc.

If she just has prejudices against MRA's, you can counter by making a parallel to radfems : there's assholes in both movements, but only one side is talking about gendercide.

If she's swallowed the marxist line of women's oppression, just mock the concept, and if she gets mad just point out that she's basically saying women were sheep and slaves for 10,000 years until a new breed of mutant women arose: the feminists!!! New, smelly, and unshaved, they single-handedly broke the Patriarchy!^tm and freed women of their shackles so that brown women could take care of their children while they slaved under their bosses as was their God-given right!

Continue as needed. ;)

[–]needs28hoursaday 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Haha yea unfortunately she has a BA in Psychology, a BSC in Neuroscience, and a BA in Philosophy, all the while going for a PHD in Psych. Needless to say I am a little out gunned from time to time since I just make things look pretty for a living. Luckily however she has started to look at my arguments from the point of view of a researcher, taking emotion out of it.

Her favorite argument is that she has to fear that a man will hurt her anywhere she goes and she can't do anything about it. In response I signed both of us up to martial arts. It helped a little since I sparred with the woman's national champ, and she put me on my ass in under 10 sec, but I digress.

There were a couple knee jerk responses to me saying that I have to defend my point of view to my SO, but that's what relationships are all about in my books. Sure we disagree on oppression issues for genders, but we both agree that equality is the goal. I wouldn't be able to date someone who didn't care about her own gender, I think its awesome. So many couples fight about such silly things which have no impact on their lives, but having a partner who is willing to argue the important things with you is a great thing.

What it really comes down to is this for me. I have a partner who has been told her entire life that the worst enemy she has in the world is a mid 20's white male. Then she meets a mid 20's white male and after 4 years still seems to love him. She so badly wants to blame the man behind the curtain for the issues of her gender, and in some ways she might be right. But it puts some holes in her argument when her boyfriend stops the car to help an old lady cross the street, or volunteers, or helps teach school girls.

We can't get angry when some one doesn't understand what we strive to do here, just try and help them understand. By being the best men we can be, that is how the movement will take its biggest steps forward. Be the man you know you should be, not the man they want you too be.

[–]theozoph 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Needless to say I am a little out gunned from time to time since I just make things look pretty for a living.

I would urge you to look up a few PUA theories about hypergamy and long-term relationship (LTR in their jargon ) game, then (Hawaian Libertarian is good, if you skip past the agrobusiness conspiracy stuff). Don't fall down the rabbit-hole of assholish behavior, but knowing what to expect and planning accordingly wil do wonder for your relationship.

Just don't fall for their "be the asshole women want" line, it's BS, and keep the misogyny out. As with many things, there's a few gems and level-headed advices mixed with a lot of insecure posturing in this scene.

There were a couple knee jerk responses to me saying that I have to defend my point of view to my SO

Don't listen to this crap, being defensive is always the worst play in the book. Be playful, and expose your PoV through games and teasing. Relationships are about emotion, not academic debates.

Be the man you know you should be, not the man they want you too be.

AKA "instead of looking for the right one, become the right one."

The best advice you'll find in "Game" circles will be the ones about working on yourself, and how to spot and diffuse manipulative games. Building confidence is key to attraction, and it's one thing you can't fake. But you also have to be able to defend against those who would undermine you, or test you.

In a nutshell, your girl seems set on making something of herself, so don't let yourself get outpaced. You don't have to out-earn or academically outdo her, but you have to set goals for yourself and attain them, and not let yourself become the dependent one in the relationship.

Peace.

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Nonsense! There are some great feminists out there who are really nice, caring, logical people. Both camps have their share of people who have their blinders on a bit, but there are also people who really do just want to try and make equality possible. Some times we just get caught up in it all and need a little reminder to keep our mind open a bit. Sure some of their arguments can be silly, but quite a few have their merits if you look at them without them being crammed in your face by some one. If you're wanting to open up to it a bit try googling some key terms and try and find a nice middle of the road site, there are quite a few out there. Or better yet, go over to /r/feminism and find some one who you think is level headed sounding and ask him/her if they wouldn't mind a chat about things.

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Because it is not meaningless. It is used for gathering information about sexual assualt. The information gathered can be used to help make sure it doesn't happen again. If they get lots of reports from one particular area they can employ a guard for that area. If it is an issue in the dorms they can take apropriate measures, no guests of the opisite gender after a certain time of day or whatever. This not about catching people, the police need to be involved for that, this is about creating a safe campus. If people are to embarressed to go to the police we can still do this.

And beyond that on a daily basis there is a lot of complaining about false rape accusations here and then you go and do this, it is not hard to see why are calling you out on this.

Not to mention that it is still an accusation even if no criminal proceedings come from it, it is still morally wrong and very possibily criminal to falsely report.

[–]guywithaccount5 points 12 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

If they get lots of reports from one particular area they can employ a guard for that area. If it is an issue in the dorms they can take apropriate measures, no guests of the opisite gender after a certain time of day or whatever. This not about catching people, the police need to be involved for that, this is about creating a safe campus.

None of those uses require the college to know the name of the accused, only the time and place where the alleged attack happened. And yet this form allows people to anonymously accuse people of sexual assault.

College campuses and the way they handle accusations of rape and sexual assault are already dangerously anti-male, both institutionally (i.e. by design) and culturally (by enforcement). This is just another way for that sexism to manifest, and you're a fool if you think male students won't be wrongly accused.

Not to mention that it is still an accusation even if no criminal proceedings come from it, it is still morally wrong and very possibily criminal to falsely report.

Oh, so now you admit it's "still an accusation"? And possibly criminal, you say? Well gee, good thing for false accusers that they created an anonymous form so that you can accuse men of rape without ever being held to account for your accusation.

on a daily basis there is a lot of complaining about false rape accusations here and then you go and do this, it is not hard to see why are calling you out on this.

No, it's not hard to see why: the reason is sexism. False accusations by women get a free pass from most people most of the time, but as soon as a man does it, holy shit, everyone jump on him because now it's an intolerable offense.

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I'm a man. In the first place I just find "men's rights" such a silly fringe issue when looking at the real problems in the world that I feel it is the type of concern specifically catered to by mostly sexists/misogynists. Secondly, if you truly want equality I don't see why there has to be a specific movement for "men's rights" if there is already a movement for gender equality by the name of feminism. I can't imagine anyone but a dishonest sexist/misogynist getting all worked up about a movement for gender equality being called "feminism", so I have to conclude that anyone who actually knows what feminism is but keeps on pretending that it is evil, a.k.a. keeps acting as a "shitlord", is indeed simply a sexist/misogynist trying to disguise his dishonest useless whiny bullshit behind the whole "rights" facade. I understand too that some people actually think that feminism is evil, but that's just ignorant, and five minutes of actual study will reveal that to you too. I also understand that you are mad at little girls on tumblr who say they want to cut off your balls, but who gives a shit about what girls on tumblr say? I'd say, only sexists/misogynists who need something utterly futile to justify their marked narrowness of spirit. In the end the only reasons to be a "men's rights activist" are thus dishonesty or ignorance. I understand that even if you are actually in favour of gender equality you'll probably disagree with me due to your ideological feels (as in, feelings from the gut rather than from reason) against feminism, but that's just your problem.

I don't doubt your integrity specifically, but it is a simple truth that the "men's rights" movement, despite the good (and ignorant) intentions of some, is a platform and vessel for sexists and misogynists to spread their moronic reactionary bullshit. I know that many of the people here just love the idea of subjugating women. I know there are people here who think women have their own particular pre-destined "place" in society, as if material reality gives a shit about their pathetic religious idealism. I know there are people here who go on /r/beatingwomen and yet pretend to in any way propagate equality. It is the same deal with neonazis who pretend to be for segregation but equality of culture, but yet in their private lives can't help making nigger jokes over and over due to their amazingly rudimentary and prejudiced ideas about how the world actually works. It is merely the religiously misanthropic scum of society hiding its nature under an ideological facade.

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For example, men who put other men down for liking feminine traits, or how male rape/molestation victims aren't treated with the same respect as female ones. While feminism does work to address these problems

We do focus on these things in a very big way, and feminism does everything to deny that male rape/molestation is even a serious issue.

There are those who do, but they are such a small minority that any time they speak up, they are over shadowed by the large majority and/or downvoted into oblivion.

See #1

I keep hearing these claims about "A Voice For Men" being sexist, but I haven't seen anyone actually point to anything sexist that has been said, unless they take something completely out of context.
Women can PLEASE come and work some dangerous jobs. PLEASE. But they don't because they aren't interested and can't keep up with the work when they try to.
Men never get custody of their children. It's true that women get custody more than men, but once again, they neglect to mention that most divorce cases are contested and that means that there was no fight in court, they BOTH mutually agreed to those terms. Further, they ignore how men who actually fight in court usually win.

This is probably the most egregious statement there, and the one that pisses me off the most. Men typically agree to the divorce terms because they don't have the money to fight it. We're typically stuck with the rent/mortgage payment and support (and sometimes alimony was well, which is an entirely sexist practice to begin with - both for men and women). When men do fight custody they usually do it because the woman is behaving particularly egregiously and they know they are going to win. In fact, that's pretty much the only time that fathers even bother attempting to secure custody - otherwise they aren't getting it.

Men shouldn't have to pay child support for an unwanted child

This should go without saying. Women can abort, adopt (even when there is a willing biological father out there to support and raise the child), or just turn the kid in at a police station. What rights to fathers have in this regard once the child is born? None at all. Why do women get all of the choices and men have none? How is that fair, exactly? And don't give me this horseshit about "It's in the best interest of the child!!!" Most often the support is exorbitant and is just spent frivolously by the mother. I've been down this road myself and with other friends and family members too many times, read about it too many times, and I know it to be true. Even the very poor women I've known who have received support didn't really spend it on their kids and instead bought themselves stupid shit that they couldn't have afforded otherwise. They treat it as alimony. Not to mention how a woman can go have other children by other men, and my support obligation now becomes higher. That's right - we're forced to pay for other people's kids, too - even if she's still with that man. If you want to know more about this I can elaborate.

Men are often victims of false rape accusations. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it rarely happens, yet MRAs act like every woman is one argument away from calling the cops.

False rape accusations are so common it's not even funny. We link to news stories about them every single day. that's how many make it in to the news. If that many are making news, you know there are a whole, whole lot more that aren't. I've been a victim of such an accusation myself (again, I can elaborate if you would like). The fact that college campuses are beginning to just take the woman's word and that's good enough for them is a big, big problem. The fact that "regret sex" is now enough to be called "rape" is a massive problem.

And why are men considered rapists when both parties get drunk and make bad decisions? Why isn't the woman also held accountable for that sex in a negative way? Oh, I suppose she has no sexual agency, right?

See? Feminists see women as the "weaker sex", not MRAs. We want both parties held equally accountable because women do have sexual agency. Or neither should be - either would be fair. The latter would be more sensible.

8, Their constant homophobia, racist remarks, how they made fun of male sexual abuse

This one really takes the cake. I have never in my life read anything more factually incorrect and such a blatant lie. We just had a thread about how we accept trans men. Several times recently gay men have made threads that have been positively received. And, really... Making fun of male sexual abuse? How laughable! It's one of the key things that we focus on fighting and highlighting as a serious problem! Nothing could be further from the truth.

This is from the intro to "The Red Pill":

"t's too easy to blame feminism for our troubles.

Men, our happiness is our responsibility. Culture has always shifted, it's dynamic and fluid. It has never and will never stay still.

Feminism was inevitable. Equal rights are something I strongly am in support of. For men and women.

Women have the right to pursue happiness. Nobody should tell them otherwise. Maximizing happiness is the goal of every living creature on this planet.

Men, we need to recognize that since women are rightfully seeking out happiness, evolutionary psychology is more relevant today than ever in the past century. (and possibly longer). We no longer run the show. And I, for one, don't disagree that marriage had to change if we were to see equal rights.

But now it's time to get serious and realize that our strategy needs to change. Feminism is a sexual strategy. It puts women into the best position they can find, to select mates, to determine when they want to switch mates, to locate the best dna possible, and to garner the most resources they can individually achieve.

The Red Pill is men's sexual strategy. Reality is happening, and we need to make sure that we adjust our strategy accordingly."

What's so bad about that?

If educational institutions give women the tools to easily make false rape claims, why shouldn't those tools be used to exploit their flaws with the intention of getting the tools shut down?

threwthrowthrow is full of shit, and you wouldn't be asking such a stupid question if you had bothered to go find out for yourself. Most of the upvotes and "agrees" come from feminists who have decided for themselves without even bothering to go see for themselves that these things are true. It's a vapid echo chamber of ignorance.

Title	Wait, this isn't right...
Author	guesses_gender_bot
Upvotes	66
Comments	96
Date	December 18, 2013 4:01 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1t57sp/wait_this_isnt_right/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/wait-this-isnt-right.1155855 https://theredarchive.com/post/1155855

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