moderate feminist anti-rape group speaks out for due process in Assange case

PierceHarlan · 2012-08-23T16:55:32+00:00

I am founder of False Rape Society and COTWA. We have have spoken out on behalf of Mr. Assange. We've happily applauded feminist groups that advocate that the presumptively innocent should be afforded due process. COTWA was hoping to applaud this op-ed, but we cannot do that because we have serious concerns about it.

The writers assert that they want justice for Mr. Assange, as do we. They take exception to the fact that "Assange is dealt with by much of the media as if he were guilty," as do we. They correctly note that "it is not for us to decide whether or not the allegations are true . . . ."

Yet they write the following: "We are even having to campaign to prevent rape victims being accused of making false allegations and imprisoned for it. Two women who reported visibly violent attacks by strangers were given two and three year prison sentences."

One of the cases they cite concerns Gail Sherwood. The writers don't mention the following: "The jury did not believe her story, and the sentencing judge, describing her as 'cunning and highly deceitful', said she had invented a 'malicious fantasy world'." http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/mar/09/gail-sherwood-jailed-campaigners

It is disingenuous to insist, on the one hand, that Mr. Assange should not be prejudged and that he should be afforded due process, while on the other to brand a woman as a "rape victim" who was found guilty after a trial of her peers. COTWA appreciates that there might have been irregularities in the way her case was handled, and we applaud any effort to unearth them. But the jury, apparently, didn't believe her, and it isn't fair, or just, to insist that she is a "rape victim" given that fact. At best, we can say she might be factually innocent.

Women Against Rape's advocacy for these women might be motivated by a feeling that false accusers should not be charged, a position that is indefensible: http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/08/prosecution-of-false-rape-accusers-must.html

Perhaps Women Against Rape isn't happy that women can be tried for making false reports on the basis that police didn't believe them. COTWA constantly protests efforts to try the presumptively innocent solely on the basis of "he said, she said" evidence. If Women Against Rape shares that concern, then perhaps they should think about mounting similar protests for presumptively innocent men and boys who are forced to undergo rape trials that come down to contests of who's the more believable witness, or better actor -- the accuser or the accused.

Until we see that sort of advocacy, then we must assume that their advocacy for Mr. Assange is probably politically motivated.

inkall · 2012-08-23T19:08:39+00:00

The case against Assange was actually thrown out by the first official who's job it was to decide if there was a case of rape to answer for.

Chief Prosecutor Eva Finne said in a statement to the press: "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape."

Just 11 days later a different Chief Prosecutor overturned this decision and the arrest warrant was re-issued.

Schlibwak · 2012-08-23T16:05:25+00:00

I think this article is a good view on the Assange case : it clearly state that there is indeed a "Innocent until proven" justice that should be applicated, and it is from an association wanting to end rapes and support the female victims.

Yet they stay neutral about the guiltiness or innocence of Assange, that is in my opinion a strong position to take as they are in a position where feminism is always on a "guilty until proven" set of mind.

This kind of "feminism" is what is really needed. They are a support group to rape victims, that want a society that blame the criminal, avoid the innocent to be demonized. For instance they clearly state that the revelation of who were the accuser really harm the plaintiff, but also the accused.

I don't know there other point of views, but those one are quality ones, with strong argument, and should be regarded with respect and a positive and debating set of mind.

primaloath · 2012-08-23T13:40:19+00:00

Two things of note:

On the other hand, Assange is dealt with by much of the media as if he were guilty, though he has not even been charged. It is not for us to decide whether or not the allegations are true and whether what happened amounts to rape or sexual violence – we don't have all the facts and what has been said so far has not been tested. But we do know that rape victims' right to anonymity and defendants' right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty are both crucial to a just judicial process.

And also:

We are even having to campaign to prevent rape victims being accused of making false allegations and imprisoned for it. Two women who reported visibly violent attacks by strangers were given two and three year prison sentences.

They give links to the two stories about these allegations in the Guardian. I have only checked one of these and, having no evidence to review, cannot agree on whether the women involved are innocent or guilty.

mythin · 2012-08-23T16:25:19+00:00

I'm supposed to now applaud this group because they have arrived at what has been considered the correct method for justice for about 1700 years?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence#History

megazen · 2012-08-23T18:13:06+00:00

The Guardian doesn't bother to interview men's rights organizations about this issue in the UK.

NWOslave · 2012-08-23T19:29:06+00:00

There's no such thing as a moderate feminist. If you want more than the right to life, freedom and property you want privilege.

Heterohabilis · 2012-08-23T21:55:24+00:00

But we do know that rape victims' right to anonymity and defendants' right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty are both crucial to a just judicial process.

So tell me my moderate feminist friends, why doesn't the accused have a right to anonymity? Given that we do not actually live in a rape culture, accused rapists are universally hated and vilified. Even if they are later found not guilty their reputation and social standing never fully recover.

Yet it is somehow okay to broadcast the accused's name and image in every available media channel while demanding anonymity for the accuser? Explain this to me like I'm stupid, because apparently I am....

2012-08-23T17:12:19+00:00

On the other hand, Assange is dealt with by much of the media as if he were guilty, though he has not even been charged.

http://i.imgur.com/yYrof.gif

primaloath · 2012-08-23T15:42:57+00:00

Due process would have him sent to Sweden immediately for prosecution. I think there should be made a special case for him: a promise that he will not be extradited to the US.

2012-08-23T15:39:12+00:00

Respect. These ladies just earned more respect from me than I have ever felt for any feminists ever before.

DavidByron · 2012-08-23T14:26:40+00:00

Well there's no such thing as a moderate feminist. But it does look like they are not as far right as most feminists and they are coming from the politics of this thing.

They certainly are still sexist against men. For example one of the issues they mention for women in that article is that they hate that the two witnesses against Assange were named and "outed" so that people can wonder if they are themselves the criminals here. Anonymity is a big deal on their own web site too:

http://womenagainstrape.net/category/tags/anonymity

Oh wait that's an article going on about how BAD anonymity would be if it was ever extended towards the defendant, the MAN, in a typical rape trial.

Their web site does the usual stuff in presenting all rape victims as female of course.

And here they say they have been campaigning to stop police ever prosecute someone for making false accusations of rape (calling such people the "victims"):

http://womenagainstrape.net/campaign/false-allegations-or-miscarriages-justice

charles2584 · 2012-08-23T23:04:41+00:00

anti-rape group...you know, as opposed to the pro-rape group in town?

jethro_skull · 2012-08-24T00:43:15+00:00

I would like to shake every member of this group's hand. This is feminism done right.

2012-08-23T19:29:53+00:00

The fact that Assange hasn't been charged is a function of the Swedish legal system, where they lay formal charges AFTER the investigation and immediately before the trial. If the same thing had happened in Britain or the US, he would have been charged BEFORE the investigation. So while he technically hasn't been charged in Sweden, by other countries' definitions, he has.

Regardless of which side you fall on in regards to the conspiracy/not conspiracy issue, this is a detail that's being overlooked by pretty much everyone.

UnoriginalMike · 2012-08-23T18:04:53+00:00

Two things strike me as this whole thing takes shape.

1) I do think creating wikileaks was bad. If the US cannot punish Assange I think he needs to be put where he can do no more harm. I mention my stance on the guy only because it shows a possible bias in my next point.

2) If all the governmental blustering about rape really is just an excuse to extradite him and put him in jail, it strikes me as a good example of what (I think) rape accusation has become. Guilty unless proven innocent, with the world turning on you and making you the bad guy. All with no real evidence. So, if the US cannot prove a crime and punish him, thus proving it will not be toyed with, it will invent a crime so awful that no one will question it.

Now, if Assange actually committed sexual assault, and the anonymous witness is a real person who was assaulted, then my statement holds no water and I will gladly retract it. I have no desire to see my beloved nation skirt it's own laws, even if the ends are supposed to justify the means.

Title	moderate feminist anti-rape group speaks out for due process in Assange case
Author	primaloath
Upvotes	257
Comments	58
Date	August 23, 2012 1:36 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yp0kh/moderate_feminist_antirape_group_speaks_out_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/moderate-feminist-anti-rape-group-speaks-out-for.1015196 https://theredarchive.com/post/1015196

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