How to reconcile the existence of non-RPers?

RareBlur · 2015-02-04T07:25:04+00:00

or you don't need TRP in order to have a fulfilling love / sex life? Considering the majority of people out there are "non-TRP"

soylentblueissmurfs · 2015-02-04T13:55:21+00:00

[deleted]

What is this?

GreatZiggurat · 2015-02-04T08:49:51+00:00

I would propose we don't live in the same kind of weird subculture that you used to live even pre-RP.

Look, when you talk about the bad dating advice you got before going RP, one thing I noticed is that it is consistently worse than the male ideals represented in the most mainstream thing ever: TV. Seriosly, something as basic, common, mainstream as Hollywood gives you better view on relationships than what you claim your pre-RP view was.

Somehow at pre-RP you were stuck in a life that was non-TV, and was not even above TV (more intellectual) but below TV, even less realistic than mainstream shows.

We the BP learned a lot about how NOT to be a husband from Al Bundy, we've seen how Mel Gibson in his younger movies having that kind of naugthy twink in the eye makes the women watching the movie go oooh, and so on.

Rollo Tomassi wrote somewhere that men are misled when their GF says they want a nice caring man and then go on staring at dumb aggressive muscular brutes in Game of Thrones.

But that is precisely one thing weird about your subculture, and I don't mean RP but even that kind of pre-RP state you used to be: you lack empathy and hence you cannot parse the non-verbal communication women hand out, you used to listen 100% to the verbal one and then you thought you were lied to and got angry. No, it is YOUR problem for not having the empathy to read between the lines, and listen to not only words but other forms of messages.

Listen, we got BOTH messages. We got the verbal messages about caring nice boyfriends and the non-verbal messages about the kind of movie stars and suchlike most women feel a visceral attraction to, and we figured the best thing would be BOTH. A caring Conan, so to speak.

I don't mean we then went on to turn ourselves into that then. We are not "alphas". Personally, I never felt I have the drive for that because sex is not an all-important hunger in my life. I sort of coasted through my twenties with having a GF for 3 months then not having for 2 years types of setups, it was not too good but I did not really want to invest into turning myself into a movie star. I also suspected by genetics and formative experiences would be too hard to overcome: I am the type of guy who is rarely able to muster the courage to look into people's eyes. But I was not misled: I knew that is not attractive. There was nothing to wake up from, I knew I was unattractive all along. Then in the thirties it got easier because I was looking for more a wife/good mom type, and many women were looking for a husband / good dad type and this was an easy match.

This makes me a classic "beta" but the thing is almost nothing RP blogs predict about "beta" husbands is true about me. I don't live in my wife's frame, she doesn't have one, I don't have one either, we both live in objective reality: we have too many urgent to-dos to afford to have personal desires or opinions. You think a typical "beta" husband is a perfect baby nurse, but in fact I never changed a diaper. Except that I didn't do that the patriarchical way like "boo hoo that is wimmens job, below my dignity", it was more like "Um, you know I have a weak stomach?" "Yeah, fine." way. What Greek letter does openly stating (not even in embarrassed) a weakness to my wife makes me, gamma, delta, omega? But the point is that it works. (OK not much sex, neither of us is interested in that sort of thing much, we are way to tired, nervous, and harried for that. You don't have much libido when you hardly catch a breath. But we are very functional parents and have a strong alliance for weathering the shit-storms of life together. Rooted in a survival-type objective reality, not in subjective frames.)

Anyway, I think the core issue is that what you think is mainstream is not mainstream because it is not even TV but rather a weird subculture of selfish men and selfish women. Selfish men who see marriage as a transaction for locking down a hot body, selfish women who see it as a transaction for locking down a wallet for princessly roleplaying. In other words, you are living in the TLC show "Rich bride, poor bride". That is not mainstream. That show was specifically made to show people who are UNUSUALLY narcissistic.

kraetos · 2015-02-04T18:35:30+00:00

Maybe TRP is wrong?

[deleted] · 2015-02-04T13:52:49+00:00

I'm in a very non-RP relationship and yes we're both happy. Are you really so confused that different things make different people happy? Humans are so much more diverse than RP-ers want to believe. I'm sure RP does work for some guys, I won't deny that. But to pretend that anyone not following it is secretly unhappy or in denial is cultish and sad in my opinion. Not every woman gets "tingles" from RP tactics but a lot of women with self esteem issues (of which there are MANY) will. So that's why RP sees success with these exact women.

relationshipdownvote · 2015-02-04T14:14:19+00:00

None of the people that I know well, and especially none of my close friends

You don't see inside their bedrooms. Pre-TRP me could have been one of those friends and post-TRP me could be one of your friends and you wouldn't know the difference. A lot of TRP is about how to deal with women one-to-one, your outsider perspective never gets to see this. I can even prove this:

If 100% of your friends are in happy relationships, either they're lying or you are a statistical anomaly. Most relationships are unhappy, 3/4 of them are not happy with their sex life, given this and the fact that pretty much any source will give you at least 25% of relationships being unhappy, either you aren't seeing the full picture or you and your group of friends are not representative of the population as a whole.

[deleted] · 2015-02-04T18:38:10+00:00

What's the most likely explanation for my personal anecdotal situation?

The way we percieve the world as individuals is highly subjective, so your anecdote all comes down to bias. You bought into the TRP narrative and since it has worked for you then it must work for everybody else. Sadly, that's not how the world works; what works for one person may not work for another. TRP is one of many ways to go about relationships with the opposite sex and seeing as most people are non-RP, I'd say your friends are actually happy.

Alpha_Kale · 2015-02-04T19:18:23+00:00

I'm not saying TRP doesn't help guys get into the type of sexual relationships that they'd prefer over incelship. When it comes down to the advice, minus all the "women are shit" and conspiracy theories, it has some solid points that men aren't getting anywhere else.

That said, most guys don't need it. For several reasons:

1.) Many guys are open to, or totally fine with, just marrying someone around their own age and living happily ever after. The "50% of marriages end in divorce thing" is overblown, especially if you are white, educated and over 25. Some guys are willing to take that risk for marriage and don't particularly need to "plate spin" or whatever in order to be happy.

2.) Some guys already know whatever TRP would teach them- they already are good looking, charismatic and good with women so it's pointless for them.

3.) Some guys might benefit from the advice given by TRP, but either aren't familiar with what TRP is, or are turned off by the overt misogyny and anger (for example, there are tons of white people who are pretty put off by racists, even if the racists seek to benefit white people)

4.) Also, most people don't even know what TRP is. Maybe it'd make them happier, maybe it wouldn't. But I know more about TRP than any man I know, in fact none of them have heard of it. One of my male friends does enjoy reading RoK because he still thinks it's satire.

[deleted] · 2015-02-04T07:20:17+00:00

The most common explanation for Non-Red Pill behavior and happy individuals is that most people see that it is a load of crap that tries to support itself with pseudoscience.

Also, something that red pillers get wrong a lot: Just because it "works", it doesn't mean it is red pill. Nor does TRP always work, or else Terpers would be a lot happier, instead of being insecure about everything.

Edit: In your situation, basically, your issue here is that TRP is the lie. It's you, not everyone else.

Edit 2: Essentially, you don't need TRP to be happy.

fizolof · 2015-02-04T05:36:47+00:00

Could you be more specific and define what you mean by "non-RP behavior"? Which tenets of TRP don't your friends believe in? I doubt they're very far from the behavior TRP advises.

tintedlipbalm · 2015-02-04T06:41:14+00:00

Most men in this world are betas and can have good lives as such. It gets confusing because some people talk of Beta like it's Omega, but it's not. Alpha is characterized as the best type to be when it comes to attracting, as in pure sexual strategy, but apex Alpha would not be ideal in the long run. The more alpha doesn't necessarily mean the more happy.

Second, I don't get what RP behavior means to you personally. To me RP is simply the theory you can observe. You put long term relationships as an example. If men are getting the sex and respect they need from their wives, who in turn are attracted, and they are happy, to me this is an example of RP, regardless if they are alpha, sigma, beta.

GreatZiggurat · 2015-02-04T08:39:13+00:00

All you've really told us is that these people are not RP and they're Betas. That probably describes 50%+ of males in the Western world, depending on your definition of Beta, so you haven't really given us much to go on.

They all seem to have happy relationships.

RP theory doesn't say that you have to be RP to be happy or have a happy relationship (in fact, RP might say not to have a relationship at all). In fact, it started off as a resource for men who were unhappy about their sexual/romantic prospects. Since then it's drawn more attention from men who are successful but appreciate the value of its accurate analysis of gender/sexual relations, desire, and attraction, which run counter to most of the P.C. stuff you learn in school or the popular culture/media. TRP is a set of general observation and theories regarding dating, sex, and relationships. It's provides methodologies for consciously taking initiative to improve your sexual success. I don't think TRP would disagree that there are tons of Betas who would be and are absolutely happy to jump into a BP relationship if that's they're only route to consistent pussy.

exit_sandman · 2015-02-04T09:51:19+00:00

You're deluded. I would rather have said "confirmation bias", but okay. While I don't doubt that you have observed reasonably happy BP relationships (I don't have that hard of a time wrapping my head around that since I observed them as well), I simply don't believe that there are no relationships that aren't happy and could benefit from introducing an RP-compatible change in their dynamic; my money is on you blinding them out, either generally or for the sake of your argument.
They're not as happy as they could be. That one's simple and so ubiquitous that it's probably a nobrainer. For example most couples could benefit from both parties walking the extra mile to be more attractive to their partner (like for example getting in shape). However, this means additional effort and most people are too complacent for that. Or it leads to problems unrelated to the relationship - a friend of mine for example has a great partner, but he let his mother walk over him for three decades, and ultimately ruin him.
They're unhappy. As I said, I don't believe that all relationships are happy. Or maybe they are still happy (you didn't specify your age or that of your friends), but won't be in 10, 15 or 20 years.
They're alphas. Apart from the devoted white knights who are too invested in their feminine-centric approach to question the idea he has of women, there are the guys who are naturally good with them, and these simply lack the experience of being confronted with their... less appealing side. Being rejected, ignored, friendzoned, taken advantage of, cheated on, flaked on, ridiculed and what not is something that doesn't happen to them very often and is usually covered up by the more pleasant experiences (pretty much the same way a pretty young girl of innocent naivety may be totally oblivious aout the general shittyness of people because she's used to everyone being nice and forthcoming to her). When these guys read TRP, they simply can't wrap their head around this because for them, women have been predominantly a source of joy instead of chagrin.

[deleted] · 2015-02-05T01:19:22+00:00

All your suggestions basically amount to "Even though you SAY you're happy and THINK you're happy and FEEL that you're happy, you're really not happy, I've decided for you."

Which, you know, is dumb.

YaBoiTibzz · 2015-02-05T02:52:30+00:00

I think it is a bit narrow to see TRP as the "only" way and that all other behaviors will somehow inevitably lead to relationship failure. There are some girls who have low enough standards, or weird enough preferences, that you can be with them just fine without having to "game" them. Unfortunately there are only a finite number of such people in the world. For every "happy blue pill" relationship think about how many people are either single, in unsatisfying relationships, or in more "red pill" esque relationships (keep in mind that people can practice these behaviors, and that they even come naturally to some, without ever having to hear about the "red pill" explicitly).

In my experience there are far more of the in-betweeners who are either: 1. Perpetually single, and hate it, or 2. Perpetually unsatisfied by their dating prospects and sex life. There are some "BP fantasy" relationships that I have seen, but usually they end for one reason or another. Only a couple do I know that lasted into marriage and still appear to be doing well. Ironically, those involve very religious girls who attended church every Sunday, NEVER had extramarital sex, etc., which is what TRP would predict.

I would view TRP as more of a way for those who are disadvantaged to get a leg up. As is often pointed out, if you are getting laid and getting dates/relationships already, then yes you probably don't need TRP. For frustrated betas however it might have some use.

PHAT_BOOTY · 2015-02-05T18:52:51+00:00

It's because the red pill is bullshit.

FRSFxHkkXX · 2015-02-04T19:21:46+00:00

Most normal human beings are happy without TRP rotting their brains.

sh1v · 2015-02-04T07:42:35+00:00

None of the people that I know well, and especially none of my close friends, seem to agree with any common RP tenets (regardless of whether or not they know the lingo).

Thanks, I will be sure to pass this along to blue pillers who theorize that sexism, racism and discrimination still exists in our society. They even have fancy terms for it like Patriarchy.

In short: Either you admit sexism is prevalent, and I win, or you admit feminism is bullshit, and it's still a modest win for me. Damn. It's shaping up to be a good day here at PPD.

Title	How to reconcile the existence of non-RPers?
Author	emptypillbox
Upvotes	6
Comments	72
Date	February 4, 2015 4:53 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2uq25m/how_to_reconcile_the_existence_of_nonrpers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-to-reconcile-the-existence-of-non-rpers.283619 https://theredarchive.com/post/283619

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