Sex vs. Rape, seeking the appropriate metaphor

Truecelacct · 2016-09-08T16:50:30+00:00

I think getting robbed is appropriate because many people also give money away. For instance, if you're a philanthropist and you get robbed, do police ask you about your past giving history? If you're a slut and you get raped do police ask about your sexual history? Both would be completely irrelevant to the crime.

midnightvulpine · 2016-09-08T18:38:34+00:00

I think, rather than seeking analogies people need to get the consequences. It's a violation of trust. A breaking of the expectations one has of society in general. And all in a very personal way. Most guys don get it because they wonder, 'what is wrong with some sex'. Well, until you've had that sort of physical assault and betrayal, you can't really get it.

Personally, I consider how I would feel after a home invasion. I feel safe at home. I've never had someone not welcome in there. If my home was invaded, I wouldn't feel as safe anymore. Because that expectation is broken.

lollygagyo · 2016-09-08T17:03:48+00:00

Honestly, I'm not sure why we need to compare rape to anything else. Rape is rape -- why don't we just try to understand it on its own terms? I think any equivalency is going to be somewhat false (although I understand why people raise them, to try and explain things to others who just do not get it).

I get really, really grossed out when people compare women to cars getting stolen or whatever. Like. It's a body. It's not a car. She's a human being, she's being violated in a way that is very specific and particular and is generally very traumatic. She is not a fucking car that was left in a bad location. Jesus Christ almighty.

Imo, the best equivalent is violent assault because it affects the parties in the same way. Being battered, losing your agency etc. That's the effect. And people do sometimes 'rough-house' with each other -- you can punch your friend playfully on the arm and that's totally acceptable, but increase the force and it becomes violent and a power play.

civilsaint · 2016-09-08T17:05:30+00:00

Rape is rape, and IMO, if you have to use analogies, you are trying to stretch the definition of rape.

With that said, I'm going to give the perfect analogy: drinking. Every drinker has at some point drank more than they wanted to and maybe did something embarrassing, and maybe even killed someone. When you drink by choice, you really only have yourself to blame.

Now, if someone spikes your drink, that is like rape, because it is against your will, you don't shoulder the responsibility.

The problem with sex is that it takes two to tango, and one gender can blame their consensual indiscretions on the other gender. It's the equivalent of blaming the bartender for your drunken behavior.

Drunk people do stupid things all the time. So do horny people. Sober people go to the bar and say they'll have 'just one', then they proceed to get loaded. People say they won't have sex all the time only to find themselves face deep in someone's crotch after they get loaded.

Booze and sex are vices. Vices defy logic. The only way to 'protect' yourself is to control these vices, because they go hand in hand.

questioningwoman · 2016-09-08T19:28:37+00:00

Someone shoving food down your mouth without permission until you choke or throw up. In some cases with a gun pointed to your head.

disposable_pants · 2016-09-08T17:23:51+00:00

Getting raped is not the equivalent of getting mugged. It's not the equivalent of getting robbed, or into a fight, or anything of the sort, because no one wants to do the consenting version of those activities on a daily basis.

An analogy/metaphor/simile is not a comparison between two things that are identical down to the smallest detail. It's a comparison that highlights at least one important similarity (preferably more), but generally is not a perfect 1:1 match. For example, take the comparison "throwing a ball is like riding a bicycle; once you learn how you never forget."

Throwing a ball is obviously not exactly like riding a bicycle in every way. Almost everyone who learns to ride a bicycle is highly competent at it (at least insofar as they don't regularly crash and can pedal/steer easily), but many people who learn to throw a ball suck at it (they're inaccurate, inconsistent, etc.). It's easy to point out other differences, too.
The important similarity is that "once you learn how you never forget." That's all that's being communicated. The person making the comparison is obviously not claiming that all other facets of ball throwing and bike riding are exactly the same.
No reasonable person is going to say this comparison is invalid or insult the person using it because there isn't perfect 1:1 congruence between all parts of ball throwing and bike riding. This is because reasonable people don't have an ego investment in any part of a ball throwing/bike riding discussion and reasonable people don't expect a comparison to involve two identical things.

The problem with analogies/metaphors/similes on here is not that they're bad, it's that people hold comparisons on here to an unrealistically high standard -- a standard that very few other comparisons are held to. This is primarily because people on here have ego investments in defending their side of the discussion, so they'll (irrelevantly) nitpick comparisons and ignore the point being made in favor of addressing the material similarity.

SirNemesis · 2016-09-08T20:44:26+00:00

Getting raped is not the equivalent of getting mugged. It's not the equivalent of getting robbed

Plenty of people donate to panhandlers, charitable causes, family, birthday people, etc.

MillieBirdie · 2016-09-09T00:13:12+00:00

Sex is like a man who likes receiving anal stimulation.

Rape is like a man being anally raped against his will.

You don't have to come up with analogies to understand rape.

betterdeadthanbeta · 2016-09-09T09:25:29+00:00

I like the fighting metaphor. Let's say you are an MMA fighter and routinely go to your gym to spar.

Situation 1 - actual rape analogy:

One day you aren't even in your gym, and a guy comes up from behind and just starts beating the shit out of you out of the blue. You call up the police and he says you two were sparring and it was consensual. No one buys it because your nose and arm are broken, you're bleeding everywhere, and everyone on the street heard you calling for help. The aggressor goes to jail. Everyone happy. The end.

Situation 2 - What blue pillers call "rape" analogy:

You're in the gym, with your pads and helmet on, because you wanted to go out and train and have fun. You have been chilling with this bigger stronger guy for about an hour taking steroids and PCP. You're both standing around in the ring and he asks if you're ready to spar. For some retarded reason you "freeze up". You don't really want to but you say nothing. "Things get heated" and you both trade blows for a while.

He's like "good stuff man, I gotta head home I'll see you again same time next week?" Because you are a feminist, instead of taking this as a valuable life lesson about the importance of expressing yourself clearly, you then call the police and inform them you've just been assaulted.

They come, see that you are in fighting gear, in a fighting area, and take down your story, which sounds exactly like consensual fighting except that you "froze up" and wanted to say no but couldn't. They ask why, if you didn't want to fight, were you dressed up in your MMA gear, at the gym, taking PCP and steroids, standing in the ring with this other guy who clearly wanted to spar. Because you are a feminist, these questions offend you. You inform the police that there is NO EXCUSE for assault, and it doesn't MATTER what you were wearing or the fact that you were at the gym. That it is their duty to LISTEN AND BELIEVE.

The police ask if you ever said "no" or mentioned that you wanted to stop fighting, you respond that you were in terror for your life and the only thing you could think to do was perform submissions on each other, pretend it was consensual and hope he didn't kill you. You inform them that it is NOT your responsibility to say no or tap out, it is rather, the responsibility of your sparring partners to continually check in and make sure you are still consenting.

Scarred by your own disproportionate levels of outrage directed at everyone but yourself, you begin questioning whether you live in an "assault culture".

SmurfESmurferson · 2016-09-08T16:47:17+00:00

So what do you say PPD, can we sit down and find some common part of our lives where consenting adults do something together all the time and it's a great, fun, exciting thing in normal day to day life, but is awful, horrible, and traumatic if one party does not want to participate?

It's still not going to be exactly applicable because you'll be hard pressed to find a consenting activity outside of sex that involves one party physically entering the other party against their will.

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LUClEN · 2016-09-08T21:36:46+00:00

Getting beaten up vs a consensual fight

cicilala · 2016-09-09T02:42:22+00:00

My example doesn't delve that deep, but I've recently thought illegal immigration and legal immigration was something similar. Both have immigration(sex), but one is not legal(rape). Of course the end result of illegal immigration isn't directly traumatic to the legals, but it can delay the time they get in and add more welfare to the accepting country. Thoughts?

Ultramegasaurus · 2016-09-08T16:39:33+00:00

Force-feeding you food you like while you're stuffed?

Someone kidnapping you to go see a good movie which you have already seen?

Getting your back scratched by someone icky?

Title	Sex vs. Rape, seeking the appropriate metaphor
Author	bornredd
Upvotes	7
Comments	83
Date	September 8, 2016 4:31 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/51s665/sex_vs_rape_seeking_the_appropriate_metaphor/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/sex-vs-rape-seeking-the-appropriate-metaphor.273126 https://theredarchive.com/post/273126

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