"When you say, 'I’m not a feminist but…' I hear, 'I’m a terrible person.'"

VortexCortex · 2014-03-16T13:44:53+00:00

"When you say, 'I don't believe in god, but...' I hear, 'I'm a terrible person'."

Even if we were to buy their bullshit definition of Feminism, assuming a monopoly over Women's Rights is quite retarding to progress for both men and women.

With such an absolutist mentality it would only take the rise of one prominent anti-feminist Women's Rights group to destroy their stance. This is their actual worst fear, not the MRM, but a separate Woman's Rights movement which would make feminism obsolete. This message is only partially meant for us, it's prime target is women who reject the ideological claims of feminism. Being a "terrible person" isn't so bad for men, we've gotten used to the label and "bad boy" is even sexualized; However, it's devastating for women, and thus effective to manipulate them via shame.

Have a different opinion and they see you as disgusting. It never surprises me how much feminists hate women.

DougDante · 2014-03-16T15:22:13+00:00

*edit: Put a polite and well sourced comment on a feminist web site advocating for equality ... and it's gone *

My comment:

Thank you for your interesting article. Feminism is at its best when its a fight for equality.

Because this issue has multiple perspectives, here are some relevant counter-arguments:

"It is disingenuous of forums like Ms. Magazine to use the Merriam-Webster definition of feminism, when in other contexts — when feminists want to police the boundaries of feminism — the Merriam-Webster definition is treated as woefully inadequate. Nora Ephron, for example, insists, “You can’t call yourself a feminist if you don’t believe in the right to abortion.” Ditto Rebecca Traister, Anna Holmes, Emily’s List, and the National Organization for Women (NOW) which also hold support for abortion as a necessary condition of feminism."

"And anyone with even passing familiarity with feminism’s journey from First, Second, and Third Waves knows what it means to be feminist has been stuffed with many more requirements than mere equality between women and men. Distilling feminism to that alone seems quaint, because we all know it is. .."

"it’s meaningless to ask whether Michelle Obama is a feminist until agreement is reached on what a feminist is."

Feminism self-contradictory in debate over Michelle Obama: Washington Times

"Men were always wrong. Men were aggressors; men were rapists; men were stupid; men were obsessed with their penises; men were responsible for forcing my mother into a heterosexual marriage and motherhood. I could be whatever I wanted to be, career-wise, and men were not required. My mother’s brand of feminism went from wanting equal rights to wanting to smash the patriarchy, which she defined for my brother and me as “men’s historical oppression of women, which they continue to do today.” No man could escape complicity, not even little boys, she said. My mom started encouraging me to “find a nice girl to fool around with.” She told me any woman who had sex with men wasn’t a feminist."

I Was Raised To Hate Men And Now I Don’t Know What To Think About Feminism, Jennifer Levin, Jul 31, 2013

"Dr. Helen Smith: Because men can't speak up. I'm here to speak up because people will actually listen to a woman. It's really unfortunate. I want the next man. I'm hoping by writing this book that the next man is out there ... look at what the culture is doing to men. The culture is telling men that they are no good. Even you all are here saying "man up, man up", and that's a negative message to be sending to men. The solution is to have fair laws ... quit treating men like trash. We treat men very poorly in this society."

From: Dr Helen Smith Explains Why Men Need To Boycott Marriage Until ...

These quotes are from the reddit Men's Rights FAQ. Please take a look at it and learn more by visiting our men's rights community. If you, like me, support equality, then please take a look at and act on some action opportunities in our mractivism community.

McFeely_Smackup · 2014-03-16T18:19:05+00:00

Of course, being the “crazy feminist” that I am, I tried to explain to him that unless he’s a terrible person, he’s a feminist. He walked away.

Sounds like he's talked to feminists before, and knows when he's just being used as a chew toy.

Say you're for equality, a feminist will tell you "equality isn't enough to qualify as a feminist", say you're not a feminist and you're "a horrible person for not believing in equality".

We're not stupid, we see your true nature. Feminists want to argue and judge...try to tell one how you support women's rights, you'll be told you're actually a shitlord because you don't agree with every crazy rad-fem ideal...while simultaneously being told rad-fem ideals are a strawman that didn't exist.

The guy walked away because he wasn't interested in feeding the hypocrisy machine.

Grailums · 2014-03-16T19:26:21+00:00

Reposted here because I have to wait for "Moderation" from the moderators. Meaning my post won't go through:

"I really, really don't understand why feminists keep touting about the "wage gap" between men and women. If you work just as hard as me YES you deserve to be paid for the WORK YOU DO. I do not see women climbing power lines, risking electrocution to ensure a neighborhood can actually have electricity. I do not see women running into a burning building to save another life. I do not see a woman digging ditches by hand. There is a reason why THOSE JOBS PAY MORE.

In her fifth paragraph it is clear that she is a perfect representation of feminism: Believing women are the only victims of discrimination, sexism, abuse and any other form of wrong in the world.

So I'm here taking a stand. You do not have to take the label of "feminism" to be a decent person. You just have to treat people DECENTLY to be a decent person. It is not your fault if a woman who chooses to work as a secretary isn't making as much money as a man who is out there there repairing a broken power line so she can do her job taking calls and making appointments. It is not your fault women feel victimized in the work place when 90% of workplace deaths belong to men. It is not your fault that women feel sexually assaulted more than men even though men "forced to penetrate" are near the exact same numbers that women are raped.

It's not your fault."

Tlcj · 2014-03-16T19:32:45+00:00

I hate when people use the dictionary to define something even though it has little basis in reality. Definition and theory are fine to talk about as a definition and theory but when trying to talk about the real world you need to use how something is used in practice.

As an example, communism is the theory that equality of everything is good (oversimplification but works for this example). The practice of communism in the real world though is vastly different. It includes a system designed to force this ideal which means a tyranny of oligarchy becomes a part of real-world communism. This would need to be talked about when talking about communism in the real world even though it isn't part of the official definition.

When theories or definitions meet real life what comes out is nothing like what was sent in.

unbannable9412 · 2014-03-16T13:01:13+00:00

The second I read the word dictionary I just closed the tab.

People like this are mentally defunct.

2014-03-16T14:40:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Peter_Principle_ · 2014-03-16T14:06:37+00:00

Don't worry irrelevant author, I don't say "but" I say "because". And I finish it off with "I'm not a terrible person."

SweetiePieJonas · 2014-03-16T15:44:53+00:00

When you say, "I'm not a Christian," I hear, "I worship Satan."

I don't really see the difference here.

Crimson_D82 · 2014-03-16T18:33:50+00:00

Of course, being the “crazy feminist” that I am, I tried to explain to him that unless he’s a terrible person, he’s a feminist. He walked away.

This is called "The correct response."

2014-03-16T18:07:19+00:00

So I am either a feminist or a terrible person. Guess I am a terrible person.

RobbenQC · 2014-03-16T22:14:12+00:00

It's really sinister how they've managed to conflate gender equality, an idea most people can get behind, with feminism. I'm sure we've all heard the argument; "If you believe in equality you're a feminist." Excuse me, but fuck you.

Feminism doesn't have a monopoly on equality. You can believe in equality whilst rejecting this ideology and its absurd theories. Don't let them pull this trick. It's like saying all it takes to be a Christian is to believe in God.

2014-03-16T13:43:49+00:00

Dear Anisha Ahuja,

You do not know shit about me. Don't tell me I'm a 'feminist' because I stand for equality. Ta.

Love, IS44

JakeDDrake · 2014-03-16T13:13:33+00:00

I read to the point of "taking part in violence toward women, or worse, blaming women for it"

Yes... It is worse to say "maybe if you didn't go to the worst part of town at 3 AM alone wearing a mini skirt and crop top, you wouldn't have been raped" than to be the guy who raped her...

Scarecowy · 2014-03-16T20:44:55+00:00

Of course, being the “crazy feminist” that I am, I tried to explain to him that unless he’s a terrible person, he’s a feminist.

The author doesn't need quotes around crazy feminist. If she is trying to tell someone that they are a terrible person unless they are a feminist, she is a crazy feminist. The same way someone who says you are a terrible person unless you are a christian or atheist, republican or democrat, or any other qualifier is a crazy "X". It's quite sad when someone can write something like that, with the full intent of being sarcastic about it, without realizing that they are actually describing the truth of the situation.

slideforlife · 2014-03-16T14:34:48+00:00

i love that women state that they are seeking to establish an egalitarian society. i hate that under the rubric of feminism, people have usurped that noble goal as a means to cash in on their own narrow desires for power.

slideforlife · 2014-03-16T15:07:13+00:00

that article's comment section is heavily moderated. I tried to post two utterly innocuous comments and neither one of them made it past the website's admins

Bartab · 2014-03-16T20:39:52+00:00

What about when I say "I'm not a feminist, because feminism is for terrible people."

Meistermalkav · 2014-03-16T16:15:38+00:00

well.....

Guess none of the sucessfull girls wanted to play with her, so she chose to blame it all on men.

I wonder why those girls never allied with her in the first place. .....

TracyMorganFreeman · 2014-03-16T16:51:49+00:00

A theory, not the theory.

2014-03-17T12:18:35+00:00

Merriam-Webster online (credible) defines “feminism” as “the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.”

Oh wow, that settles it, doesn't it? I suppose the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is totally a Democratic People's Republic!

Fucking idiocy.

Azureheart · 2014-03-17T16:13:53+00:00

Is how they'll pull out the dictionary to define Feminism but will deny is definition of sexism

shinarit · 2014-03-17T14:31:25+00:00

So this is me, trying to tell the world that if you’re a decent person, you’re a feminist.

Umm, thanks, but no thanks.

Feminism isn’t me refusing to wear a bra, or dresses, or makeup, or heels. Feminism isn’t me saying that all men are reinforcing patriarchy and hegemony simply by being men.

Maybe for YOU it's not. But when people do that and identify as feminist, and the majority of feminists just stay silent or passively like it, reblog it, share it, it becomes feminism. If you have a wide movement and want to define it, you have to actively root out participants who want to sway it that way, or it will be seen as it. Dictionary definitions only count when they match the majority's opinion, and the majority is pretty divided on the question of feminism.

Feminism is me saying that I work just as hard as you and that I deserve to get the same amount of pay.

Debunked a thousand times. Bullshit.

Feminism is protesting against violence toward women, not partaking in it, or even worse, blaming them for it.

Why specifically women? How can you go for equal rights by contributing for one gender's benefit?

Feminism is not judging my credibility and ability based on my weight or appearance.

Sure, men are not judged by their appearance.

Feminism is believing that the ~50% of the population that helps drive this world toward being a better, more functioning place, deserves to be treated fairly and equally.

This i can agree with, but that is our reality, right now. Though if i would want to be evil, i would say that most of the people who drive our world towards being more functional are men (STEM), so you should actually go for male supremacy if you this.

Really, you can't say you are working for equal rights and than only work on real or perceived problems of one gender.

Title	"When you say, 'I’m not a feminist but…' I hear, 'I’m a terrible person.'"
Author	Azureheart
Upvotes	79
Comments	39
Date	March 16, 2014 11:25 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/20jnb7/when_you_say_im_not_a_feminist_but_i_hear_im_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/when-you-say-im-not-a-feminist-but-i-hear-im-a.1002701 https://theredarchive.com/post/1002701

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