What is 'creep-shaming'?

Hach8 · 2012-09-10T19:10:15+00:00

There are a lot of problems with creep shaming, but what creep shaming is, at its core is shaming men who are "creepy."

Calling a man a creep is pretty damning and damaging to his reputation, not only sexually but in other ways socially and professionally as well.

The problem with "creep shaming" is that it's completely subjective. While a man who follows around / stalks / harasses women could easily rightly be called a "creep" and should be ostracized, the merely socially awkward, introverted man is also often labeled as a "creep" as well.

In essence, creep shaming runs into problems where the subjectivity is involved. It's actually very similar to slut shaming.

The way it's similar is that "slut" is subjective. A woman (or man) can be very responsible and have say, safe sex with multiple partners throughout their life and some men would consider her a "slut" even though she never did anything wrong, and was completely responsible.

At its core, the problem with both slut shaming and creep shaming is that they are shaming based on labels that are completely subjective. Irresponsible, hateful, and disrespectful behavior deserves to be called out. But, merely condemning men because they are "creepy" or women because they are "sluts" is bullshit, because neither label necessarily includes the irresponsible, hateful, or disrespectful behavior which should be condemned.

(also, the whole post seems a little like concern trolling, but I'm going to assume you are simply hoping for a better understanding of the subject.)

EpicJ · 2012-09-10T18:14:27+00:00

this is a prime example can't win an argument to they "resort to you're making me feel uncomfortable" you see it all the time when people can't win an argument on youtube or Facebook so they'll say "leave me alone and stop harassing me"

ErasmusMRA · 2012-09-10T23:28:52+00:00

This is creep shaming.

"I want to know who let you on stage. I feel uncomfortable with you even staring at me."

I bet she pulls the 'creep' card any time she doesn't like a guy and wants to throw some negative attention his way. "Eww you're making me feel uncomfortable you're such a creep stay away from me"

electriophile · 2012-09-10T18:02:42+00:00

Slut shaming is more used as a trump card. If a woman isn't abiding by your standard of modesty, or if she's just not acting in a way you like, you can call her a slut to try and get her to shut up or leave. It's not so much an excuse to act as slutty as you want without consequences (ideally, at least).

Similarly, creep shaming is also used as a trump card. If a man isn't abiding by your standard of normal social behavior, or if he's just not acting in a way you like, you can call him a creep to try and get him to shut up or leave.

Both are used to try to enforce conformity and control people.

sorry4partying · 2012-09-10T20:19:08+00:00

People who "creep-shame" operate on the (fucked up premise) that a man's worth and value as a human being is decided by... any given woman. It is based on the (fucked up premise) that if a woman feels threatened or "creeped out" or dislikes a man, then that man has diminished value and therefore there must be something inherently wrong or flawed with him.

ErasmusMRA · 2012-09-10T21:01:11+00:00

In our society a man is expected to make the first move in asking a girl out. For example, he asks a girl out for coffee in the elevator. If the girl finds him attractive, she accepts and things go on from there. However, if she doesn't find him attractive that automatically makes him a creep and she tells all her friends and the internet that she was almost raped in the elevator.

Now, don't get me wrong, there are behaviors which are clearly creepy such as stalking and harassing. This isn't what we're talking about when we talk about creep shaming. The problem is the criteria women use for creep shaming is completely subjective. Her feeling uncomfortable makes him a creep. This of course makes her a victim and makes him out to be some kind of a sexual aggressor for expressing romantic interest in her.

rottingchrist · 2012-09-10T17:23:59+00:00

"If someone is acting in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable, you almost always have the unqualified right to tell them that they are making you uncomfortable and ask them to stop"

Indeed. And that's what one must do when they feel uncomfortable. Not go into hysterics and go "EEEEEEWWWWWW GET AWAY YOU CREEP!!!!!" or tell other people how so-and-so is such a creep or creepy or spread rumours to that effect or whatever.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the issue. I'm comfortable enough with myself that I don't care what others think. But it seems a pretty scummy thing to do.

Jesus_marley · 2012-09-10T19:17:45+00:00

Creep shaming is an outward expression of an internalized emotion. Unlike with "slut shaming", where a person is policed by an outward manifestation of themselves (ie. the way they act or dress), creep shaming employs a method of taking your emotions or fear, which are something the other person has no control over whatsoever, and imposing upon that other person the responsibility for those emotions or fear.

If a person is acting inappropriately, it is not a shaming tactic to call them out on their behaviour. It IS a shaming tactic to use such language on a person who you, for whatever reason, do not wish to interact with. It is not up to the other person to police their actions to accomodate your emotions simply because you demand it.

*I used you and your a lot in this post but it is not directed at any specific person.

marbledog · 2012-09-11T00:25:34+00:00

I think that slut-shaming and creep-shaming are analogous. In both, an innocuous (or even non-existent) expression of sexuality is framed as something dangerous or immoral. Sex is a primary impulse, of course, and it can be hazardous. Sex that is manipulative, predatory, or unsafe is a certainly harmful. Shaming as a tactic of social control is older than civilization, and it has always been used to enforce socially-mandated sex practices, for good or bad.

Slut-shaming is a way of framing a woman's sexuality as pathologically manipulative or unsafe. Like most ad hominem, it is typically just a way of harming someone the speaker doesn't like. (That woman is prettier than me / more popular than me / won't sleep with me / cheated on me / etc. = "She's a slut.") Creep-shaming does the same to men by framing their sexuality as predatory.

Certainly, some men's behavior IS harmful, as is the behavior of some women. However, as with slut-shaming, creep-shaming is typically used as an offensive attack rather than a legitimate criticism of inappropriate behavior. Rather than simply communicating to the "creep" that their attention is unwanted or that their behavior is uncomfortable, the shamer attempts to direct public scorn toward the "creep". (Assuming that any unwanted behavior took place in the first place, of course.) Slut-shaming and creep-shaming may be expressed slightly differently due to the difference in social gender roles, but they have the same intent and effect, and they derive from the same impulse.

dakru · 2012-09-11T02:03:11+00:00

Using the word "creep" on that guy who follows you home from work and stands outside your house every Friday is perfectly fine.

Using the word "creep" on that guy you don't find attractive who had the audacity to talk to you at a bar is not. It's basically attacking someone for being unattractive (I'm not talking physically in particular; it's a combination of body and personality, so him being awkward when hitting on her and not the guy who's seemingly effortlessly dominant and seductive that she wants), because if an attractive guy did the same thing she wouldn't do that at all. Pretty much everyone's seen this happen, and I think the word's used for this far more than the stalker-like scenario. After a guy leaves: "Ewww, what a creep" -- "But he didn't do anything. He just struck up a conversation with you". In that case, it's not actually something he did, but a feeling from her.

It's similar to "slut" in that it's relatively vague, vague enough that it can be used rather freely, but that it carries enough weight to do a ton of damage. Just as "creep" can be used willy-nilly, so can "slut"; some guys, when rejected, will call the woman a slut. No guy wants to be considered creepy; it basically means he's scum at the bottom of the social ladder, unloved by everyone, especially women. I'd say the more direct version for women of "creep" is "ugly", but "slut" is decently similar.

(By the way, men creep-shame other men too, usually to put other men down to get rid of the competition for a girl, like "yeah, what a creep that other guy hitting on you was", and women slut-shame other women too, usually to put other women down again to get rid of the competition for a guy, like "she's prettier than me, what a slut")

Bobsutan · 2012-09-13T08:41:03+00:00

It appears here several times:

http://exposingfeminism.wordpress.com/shaming-tactics/

rogersmith25 · 2012-09-11T16:49:15+00:00

Slut-shaming and creep-shaming are not male/female analogues. Both men and women are slut-shamed; both men and women are creep-shamed. It just happens that there is a greater prevalence among genders of one over another.

The reason that "creep-shaming" is discussed here is because it is largely seen as a female/feminist privilege, largely because it is a tactic used by outspoken feminists within the "skeptic" community which feminists are trying to co-opt. There has been a well-publicized feud between Richard Dawkins and feminists over "creep-shaming".

That said, a man can publicly defame a woman for providing unwanted (possibly sexual) attention; though this is comparatively rare and lower-profile, it could happen, and thus is not exclusive a female act.

rightsbot · 2012-09-10T17:14:18+00:00

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DejaBoo · 2012-09-22T21:55:13+00:00

I'm not quite sure if I'm on the same page as the "shaming" part, but I wanted to mention the creep aspect.

Just to piggy back. There are many threads such as /r/askreddit or askwomen and you begin to see a common theme.

An unwelcome advancement made by a man = creep.

Where the same advancement made by an attractive man =/= creep.

I think Hach8 was making a good point of it but I thought a more "to the point" approach may get the point across that there is shaming of "unattractive" men or men in general who looked upon as predators without any behavior to indicate whatsoever.

doublicon · 2012-09-11T06:30:48+00:00

It means "low-ranking" male. It is sometime used to label possibly violent men, but for the most part its used to chase away the attention of men who the woman in question deems "lesser".

ChemistryFederal6387 · 2024-09-20T06:10:59+00:00

The problem with creep shaming is it assumes there is a set of objective obvious rules every man can follow when interacting with women. Like only creeps ask women out between 12-2pm.

To illustrate the problem, I will tell a typical creep story I heard from women at uni. Flatmate was outraged because some creep asked her out in the local shop. All her friends are agreeing with her, saying they hate it when that happens and it is so creepy.

I innocently asked if they have ever gone out with a guy who asked them out when shopping. Awkward silence, until one by one they admit they have but somehow I am missing the point.

Of course I suspect I am not, the creep crime shop guy committed was asking a woman out while not being good looking enough. Creep is just a term women used to justify their shallowness.

shitsfuckedupalot · 2012-09-11T02:41:40+00:00

life isn't fair

Title	What is 'creep-shaming'?
Author	Froolow
Upvotes	32
Comments	43
Date	September 10, 2012 5:12 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/znsy4/what_is_creepshaming/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-is-creep-shaming.1013849 https://theredarchive.com/post/1013849

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