'De-Blackifying' a controversial post...

[–]rightsbot 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bobsutan 10 points11 points12 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Copied from rightsbot since the OP was deleted:

A while back the mods banned a post, because they contend it is 'about the Black family and politics, not Mens Rights'. I beg to differ.

It's not a secret that the destruction of the family is one of the main concerns of the mens movement...from Divorce reform to Parental Rights.

It's also no secret that the biggest obstacle in the way is the simple fact that Government has taken sides, and has implemented all manner of 'reforms' to 'correct imbalance'...

Well, this article explains the ACTUAL effect of these 'great and caring Social Programs'. It's been posted before in the original context...here it is using 'de-blackified' words...

In 1940, when southerners were politically impotent, their poverty rate was 87 percent. By 1960, before southerners achieved much political power, it fell to 47 percent. During that interval, in various skilled trades, the incomes of southerners relative to northerners more than doubled. Before 1960, there were no anti-poverty programs or affirmative action programs that can explain an economic advance that exceeded any other 20-year interval, though there were Truman and Eisenhower administration attacks on some of the gross forms of latitudinal discrimination. A significant chunk of southern progress occurred simply through migration from rural areas to cities. Between 1960 and 1980, southern poverty fell roughly 17 percent and continued falling to today's 24 percent. The decline in southern poverty between 1960 and 1980 might have simply been a continuation of a trend starting much earlier and cannot be attributed solely to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, President Johnson's War on Poverty, or Richard Nixon's affirmative action. Most of the major problems that many southern people face are not amendable to political solutions and government anti-poverty programs. Let's look at some. In 1940, 86 percent of southern children were born inside marriage, and the illegitimacy rate among southerns was about 15 percent. Today, only 35 percent of southern children are born inside marriage, and the illegitimacy rate hovers around 70 percent. Today's breakdown of the southern family is unprecedented. It began in the 1960s with the War on Poverty and the harebrained ideas of the welfare state. In the mid-1960s, Daniel Moynihan sounded the alarm about the breakdown in the southern family in his book "The Southern Family: The Case for National Action." At that time southern illegitimacy was 26 percent. Moynihan said, "(A)t the heart of the deterioration of the fabric of the Southern society is the deterioration of the Southern family." He added, "The steady expansion of welfare programs can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the Southern family structure over the past generation in the United States." Moynihan's observations were greeted with charges of racism and blaming the victim. By the way, the welfare state is an equal opportunity family destroyer. Today's illegitimacy rate among northerners, at nearly 30 percent, is higher than it was among southerns in the 1960s when Moynihan sounded the alarm. In Sweden, the mother of the welfare state, illegitimacy is 54 percent. southerns hold high offices and dominate the political arena in Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore, Washington, D.C., New Orleans and other cities. Yet these are the very cities with the nation's most rotten schools, highest crime rates, high illegitimacy rates, weak family structure and other forms of social pathology. I am not saying that southerns having political power is the cause of these problems. What I am saying is that the solution to most of the major problems that confront many southern people won't be found in the political arena and by electing more southerns to high office. In fact, politicians tend to be hostile to some of the solutions to problems many southerns face such as school choice as a means to strengthen education, the elimination of oppressive licensing restrictions for various occupations, and supportive of job-destroying labor legislation such as minimum wage laws. The bottom line is there is very little evidence anywhere on the planet that political power is a necessary condition for economic power.

Now, I would like an explanation from the mods...ALL of them...as to why this article doesn't talk about 'mens issues' and instead these are 'black issues'. Are you contending that NONE of this is also happening to 'real MRAs' (ie, white ones) like yourself?

I'm truly disgusted with the behaviour of this group, and I doubt I'm the only one. So, if you're not a bunch of smug cunts 'inviting' dissent to go elsewhere...just what the fuck are you assholes trying to do here?

[–]truthman2000 -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]megazen 7 points8 points9 points 13 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

This article is related to men's rights, because it partially explains the disintegration of african american families due to the excessive welfare by big government, and excessive economic/family regulations.

The black communities were among the first to disintegrate because of feminist policies which corrupted the institution of marriage. And this proces was funded and supported by the government.

Walter E. Williams:

the welfare state is an equal opportunity family destroyer. Today's illegitimacy rate among whites, at nearly 30 percent, is higher than it was among blacks in the 1960s when Moynihan sounded the alarm. In Sweden, the mother of the welfare state, illegitimacy is 54 percent.

Walter E. Williams is a well respected economics professor and libertarian so he definately deserves attention.

I understand why some might consider it off-topic, but this article shouldn't be removed in my opinion.

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[–]ignatiusloyola -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I won't hold it against you for sharing your point here. :) But I will thank you.

It is actually both simultaneously, no matter what is done. I still get a lot of complaints about being ineffectual due to insufficient moderation, and I still get a lot of complaints about too much moderation. I understand that is part of the job.

I take a bit of an objection to being told that I am doing it because it disagrees with my ideology. I recognize my bias and I try hard not to let it interfere with my moderation. I can't guarantee it (no one can), but I am open to criticism, and I have admitted wrong and reversed decisions in the past. A lot of what I am being accused of here is based on one or a limited sample of my actions/statements, in contradiction with others. I do a lot of moderation, and so I don't keep track of everything I do to prove myself when someone decides to challenge me - and I don't feel that Reddit makes it possible to do that.

People want more transparent moderation? We discussed that, actually. The problem really comes down to trolls - the more insight the trolls have to our moderation, the more ways they find to get around it. Case in point - I was spam filtering the Manhood Academy guy for about a year and a half, without banning his accounts. It took him days, each time, to catch on, and so he wasn't much of a problem. But we decided to start banning him, which sends him a message each time, and he has tripled his activities compared to what he used to do. We convinced the admins to add his website to the auto-shadow-ban filter (they did), and so he starts using Tumblr/Youtube links instead. The more spammers/trolls know about your system, the more they abuse it.

It sucks. It really, really sucks. Honestly, I would have no problem with much more transparent moderation if I could somehow find a way to avoid the trolls (SRS included, spammers included).

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You mean the mods agree with you, no? You disagree with 'conservative' values, so you view 'conservatives' as invading the MRM.

When the OPPOSITE is the truth. Look at nearly any longtime MRA, and they will have nothing but contempt for 'social programs' based on anything but need. Look at any of these social programs, and you will see they are based on Identity Politics (ie, feminism/Marxism)...politics which NEED to be questioned. Politics that gave rise to this movement in the first fucking place.

Politics that the mods are PUSHING on the rest of us.

I don't give a fuck what your political leanings are any more than anyone else here....but I DO give a fuck when you tell me that ONLY your political leanings are acceptable, or 'real' MRA thinking.

Because if I'm not mistaken, not fucking one of them participates in the MRM outside of this reddit, and none of the mods have EVER had a presence in the MRM 'mainstream'.

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Some people here - the people who are pushing articles like this one, the people who are vilifying the moderators - have explicitly stated that not only should women not have the vote, a lot of men shouldn't either. One of them even moderates /r/monarchism.

So fucking what? Why is it so EVIL to say that kind of thing? Is the very topic off limits, because YOU don't see merit in discussion?

A long time ago, I and a few other people said 'fuck it, being nice gets nowhere'. You know what happened?

As the Mens Movement said unpopular things more and more, people began to feel free to say things similar, or to publicly agree.

By saying unpopular things, the Mens Movement has given people freedom to object to an oppressive political climate.

And you and your cohort want to shove men right back into that box.

And I will fight you tooth and nail every step of the way.,

[–]Legolas-the-elf -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (53 children) | Copy Link

So fucking what? Why is it so EVIL to say that kind of thing? Is the very topic off limits, because YOU don't see merit in discussion?

You weren't talking about whether or not it was evil. You asked about the "narrow totalitarian agenda". You don't think taking away democracy is totalitarian?

The topic is not off limits elsewhere, but it is off-topic here because the advocacy of totalitarianism is not men's rights. In fact, it's the opposite. How is depriving some men of their vote an aid to men's rights? It's not - it's an aid to the extreme political ideology that these particular people are trying to push here. That's what Sigil1 means when he says people are trying to subvert this subreddit. This subreddit is not for talking about how good it would be if we could take away people's votes. That's not men's rights in any way, shape or form.

And you and your cohort want to shove men right back into that box.

I'm not one of the people advocating stripping some men of their right to vote. I'm not one of the people promoting the reintroduction of the traditional gender roles that have been so harmful to men. You want to see who is trying to put men in a box, look at your buddies.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (52 children) | Copy Link

You weren't talking about whether or not it was evil. You asked about the "narrow totalitarian agenda". You don't think taking away democracy is totalitarian?

Considering the general disenfranchisement of men, their withdrawal from the political process (which of course, CAN'T be ascribed to politicians never addressing anything men care about...Hell no, that wouldn't be Progressive...it HAS to be becausee men deserve it), what do you prefer, limited democracy, or tyranny of the majority (a specific threat that was defended against in the Constitution, until Lefty judges decided it was a 'living document' and subverted nearly all of it.

And frankly, coming from an American your defense of 'democracy' is a fucking joke, considering the Electoral College are the ONLY votes that actually count. YOU DON'T LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY IF YOU ARE AMAERICAN, YOU LIVE IN A REPUBLIC.

And most times I've seen this discussed, it's been presented as 'one household, one vote', which is NO different as a concept than the entire American 'Democracy'. So, where's the 'totalitarianism' in that?

Or, are you ASSUMING that every household with a male will vote 'male'? If so, you're a bigot.

That's not men's rights in any way, shape or form.

You have a completely inadequate view of what Mens Rights are. It's not 'fighting for equality'...that's your leftist view coming in and trying to make this movement something it is not. This is a movement to END DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MEn, and that is all it is.

And frankly, if you shitheads want to make it into something else, then YOU can start another reddit for it...this one was here LONG before you were.

I'm not one of the people advocating stripping some men of their right to vote.

No, you dumb fuck, you're the one trying to shame them back into silence and compliance.

I'm not one of the people promoting the reintroduction of the traditional gender roles that have been so harmful to men.

I'm not a big believer in them either, so what of it? Are you contending your views are automatically better than theirs? Are you contending those views aren't 'proper MRA thinking'? Who gave YOU the right to decide that for everyone else?

You and your ideological allies are STIFLING IDEAS, not us.

You want to see who is trying to put men in a box, look at your buddies.

My 'buddies' are arguing the same point...YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE FOR US. Your defense of the practice is nothing short of elitism.

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[–]truthman2000 8 points9 points10 points 13 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The mods will poll the users, generally

History shows otherwise. When the users dissent, you claim their opinions are irrelevant.

Remember when folks asked for some balance on the mod team, instead of you just promoting radical Left-leaning people like yourself?

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/q79u3/politics_and_mens_rights/c3vpidn

Your response was to falsely claim the following:

Making so many different accounts to argue with so that you guys seem like there are more people who support the same views eh? I bet there are 4-5 actual people who believe this shit and then each of you have like 2-3 accounts just to make it seem like there are more.

And it seems their concerns were valid, as you and the mods continue to push your shared political agenda and censor articles that don't agree with it.

You don't ever really poll the users on important topics. You just make a META thread that few people read and pay attention to the input you desire while ignoring the rest, then make the decision you were going to make in the first place.

edit: Thread removed, I guess you don't actually want to poll the users on this topic, huh? Lies and more lies. "Take it to the META where I can control the dialogue", right?

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[–]buylocal745 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

southerns hold high offices and dominate the political arena in [...] Detroit

Well no one told Detroiters this. I have not seen a single southerner in office here. Most of them are African-American Detroit natives.

Yet these are the very cities with the nation's most rotten schools, highest crime rates,

You know why that's so here? Race rebellions. Black people had NO money in the 1960's and before (with a poverty rate of 30%, and an effective rate of much higher still don't), were repeatedly denied loans, red-lined in housing districts, had those districts destroyed by free-ways, and were the victims of a racial divide so bad that it carries on into today, with an 80 percent African American population living in the city, and the reverse in the suburbs.

Understandably, people got pissed. Cops started harassing an innocent black man in his 20s, and voilà! The straw which broke the camel's back. A race uprising occurred, with the disproportionate victims of arrests and deaths being black males.

Whites fled the city in a mass exodus almost over night, taking away all the business and capital from what had once been the Paris of the midwest, and the Arsenal of Democracy in WWII. This leads to no money for schools and services, houses begin to catch fire and neighborhoods begin to collapse in to gang-ridden wastelands.

Couple this decline with white suburbanites moving in a further and further radius from the city,taking their money with them, and the absolute lack of public transportation in the city of Detroit (as the auto industries bought and dismantled it in the 1930's), and you create an environment where poverty is the norm, where no jobs exist, and where crime rules most of the city.

There's a reason Detroit is called the Baghdad of North America, and it isn't the welfare state.

Please do some actual research before making a unilateral decision about why my city is the way it is.

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You won't get an explanation from all the mods

No shit.

re-posting the same thing after it's been deleted isn't going to do you any favors either.

I'm not TRYING to do me any favours. I'm trying to get an explanation, or at the very least make others aware of what is going on.

These FOUR people feel they have the right to control what 40,000 people can post or read. That's censorship.

This is NOT a personal blog of theirs. This is NOT a commercial enterprise of theirs.

They were bequeathed this subreddit by kloo2you, who started it, when there were 26 000 readers. They do not OWN this reddit, they are STEWARDS of this reddit.

They do NOT have the right to do this, and they know it. Which is why they will not explain, and their response will be 'don't like it, go elsewhere'. The response of someone who believes their power is unassailable, a petty tyrant mentality.

This article was banned because it's critical of the welfare state, and NO other reason. The black thing is an excuse, not a reason. But the way it makes them look like incredible racists is sort of a sweet revenge.

[–]Curebores 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

This is NOT a personal blog of theirs.

Technically, it is. They just allow others to post on it.

They were bequeathed this subreddit by kloo2you, who started it, when there were 26 000 readers. They do not OWN this reddit, they are STEWARDS of this reddit.

Your point being? They have ultimate control over what is posted and they believed (In my opinion rightly) that your posts about race oppression were not relevant enough even if they did have an incidental relation to men's rights as a whole.

They do NOT have the right to do this, and they know it. Which is why they will not explain, and their response will be 'don't like it, go elsewhere'. The response of someone who believes their power is unassailable, a petty tyrant mentality.

They do have this right and they exercised it. They keep this sub neutral in matters of race/politics/sexual orientation/whatever. If you want to talk about that shit, go to a sub dedicated to it.

This article was banned because it's critical of the welfare state, and NO other reason. The black thing is an excuse, not a reason. But the way it makes them look like incredible racists is sort of a sweet revenge.

You are starting to sound like a nutter. Cool it off.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Curebores 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

The main page is what people see when they come here and anything that would cause them to make a snap judgement about us (Such as this) should be (and is) moderated.

You have been a redditor for TWO MONTHS...and yet here you are telling longtime MRAs what the 'right approach' is. You don';t even know what the fucking issues ARE, yet you KNOW FOR A FACT what we 'need' to do.

I wonder how many of you know it all noobs are aware of the fact that being angry is what led to this success? I wonder if any of you know that asking the hard questions, making the unpopular statements, and refusing to apologize for 'looking bad' IS WHAT THE MENS MOVEMENT DOES.

It is LITERALLY our reason for existence.

So tell me, oh all-knowing smart guy, why would 'looking bad' be a bad thing, if 'looking good' means doing the Politically Correct thing, and going with the flow?

Just how much 'looking bad' is OK for us to do?

Shithead.

[–]Curebores 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

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If the board is not allowing itself to be co-opted by the very narrow, bigoted and totalitarian agenda being advanced by this ultra so-con sect, the board is bigoted and restrictive.

Now who is engaging in dishonest mischaraterization.

I'm not a white nationalist, but I am a white male. Does this mean I am not ALLOWED to voice concern over discrimination I face? If I am, why are Bl;acks not allowed to in the same space? Is this a 'white concerns only' board? Just WHO is the fucking bigot here?

I'm not a right/left kinda guy, I find the whole team-picking mentality of American Politics to be not only annoying, but blatantly fuelled by the political classes to distract the populace.

But your characterization of anyone who disagrees with your assessment of the importance of this sort of thing has most definitely been enlightening.

The /r/mensrights board most definitely IS overrun with racists...

The 'white guilty' kind.

[–]ignatiusloyola -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The odd thing is, Factory2 isn't one of the possible white nationalists, as far as I know. He tends to be conservative/American libertarian, from my experience, but isn't so much a white nationalist, neo-con.

I think Factory2 is caught up in the idea that the mods are starting to employ more "removal" policies, and he wants a the subreddit to be completely free. Unfortunately, he is conflating that with our political ideological disagreements, and is convinced that they are intrinsically linked. What I think he is missing is the other side of the argument - that there really are 40k subscribers (>40k readers, due to cross posts, <10k contributors, though, from what I can gather from SubredditStatistics). There are LOTS and LOTS of posts, compared to what the subreddit used to be, and the subreddit is no longer the community that he was used to.

With so many new members, members of varying views, and with so many trolls posting things, it is becoming more necessary - from our point of view - to focus the discussion. That is why we have created and accepted the creation of related subreddits and encourage discussion there.

We are accused of bias because we removed something that he wants to see posted, but when we remove things like meme images and rage comics, no one accuses us of bias. Why? Because they agree with those being removed. The bias is not so much us in removing things, but in users not wanting to see very specific things removed.

But it is hard to be self-critical and see that. I don't agree with Factory2's assessment of the situation, but I feel he has the right to complain.

[–]C0CKPUNCHER 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

Your particular sensitivity there is a bit telling. How much of this article is about 'white rights'? Huh? Just how much of this is anti-black? Can you point to ANYTHING 'racially objectionable' in this article?

Or do we as MRAs take the stance that 'blacks' have their own advocacy groups....? And if so, why do so many of you 'lefties' (including the mods) think we should fight for 'equality' instead of 'men'? I mean, if you contend there's plenty of 'black spaces' and we don't need to address those topics, then SURELY the myriad of Womens groups has women's issues covered, no?

Do you see where the GIANT FUCKING HYPOCRISY comes in yet?

Black men are men too. Black families are families too. And things that affect black families affect society TOO. And this kneejerk 'anyone who brings up race, or even white guys being discriminated against, is automatically Stormfront trying to smear us' shit has GOT to stop.

Half a dozen assholes are manipulating 40,000...and you don't care? You AGREE with them?

You are participating in the dismantling of the Mens Movement, and you're too stupid, or prideful, to realize it.

[–]buylocal745 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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And yet here you are defending the mods stance. Here you are calling anyone who wants to address these issues 'racist' and 'totlaitarian'. Do you understand WHY this 'what will the neighbors think' mentality is so dangerous yet? Do you understand yet, that FEAR OF LOOKING BAD is what Political Correctness, Feminist Totalitarianism...hell, damn near any of the social ills facing us today DEPEND UPON FOR SUCCESS?

These mods are employing the very same tactics cultural marxists did through Feminism, and if we don't allow these kinds of discussion, if we ALLOW these bigots to shape our discourse for us, then we will be NO BETTER than any other ideology.

Because we will have long thrown out the truth for better political optics.

MRAs better wake the fuck up soon, or we will end up right back where we started.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Which sect is this? White Nationalists?

Yeah, they're real tough to argue against alright...

But look at what you support...

You support a group of mods who have repeatedly stated that Feminism is a 'potential friend'. Mods who have repeatedly stated that Mens Rights is really about 'equality' (when it isn't...it's about getting people to stop discriminating AGAINST men).

These people are openly sympathetic to the very group of ideologuyes the MRM fights daily. These mods are 'open to dialogue' with those who HATE us, who have shown NO limit to what they will do, and who have openly expressed contempt at the very idea men deserve the same concern as women for over 50 years.

These people are MORE friendly to RadFems, than they are to MRAs that also happen to believe White Males are heavily discriminated against (which it is UNDENIABLE that they are...INCLUDING official State sanctioned discrimination).

So, sympathizers of the feminist movement, opposition to whom gave rise to this very movement, are MODDING a forum on Mens Rights...and you see no problem with them having Carte Blanche over what gets posted here?

Are you that stupid really? Do I have to adjust my opinion of your intellect?

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We do the same.

No you don't you fucking liar....case in point, this very fucking article.

But, as has been said, the focus has to be on "men's rights".

None of you have shown how this is irrelevant...ALL of you have said it involves blacks, and blacks can go elsewhere to discuss 'black issues'. The fact that these SAME issues are facing white families too is deemed 'irrelevant'...because it's not explicitly stated in the article it's about men.

Your NARROW view of what is 'racist' and what is 'not' shows a HUGE problem with your modding policy.

This article is CLEARLY banned because it's critical of the Welfare State (and this coming form a guy on Unemployment, by the way), the 'black' thing is nothing but an excuse, and frankly makes this reddit look FAR more reacist than a few Stormfront posters would.

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History proves my assertion: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yncpp/deblackifying_a_controversial_post/c5x5oh7?context=3

We've already been over this.

But seriously, someone mentioned recently that you guys had your own private sub (/r/MRAs is it, I think?).

Nope.

A bunch of people started showing up to previously removed threads, indicating that there had to be a cross link somewhere.

Interesting. Haven't heard you complaining about your pal Legolas-the-elf's repeatedly linking meta threads to subredditdrama in order to vote in your favor.

Let's get this straight.

You claim you want users' input on how to run this sub-reddit.

But when users give input you admit you don't want it and you espouse theories about why their opinions don't matter. Then you delete their threads.

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

Quit playing your games and go do some activism, you silly child.

[–]ignatiusloyola 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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This is very hard to read as one big paragraph.

Tried to break it up, it keeps coming up as one big paragraph.

It belongs in a place like politics or economics or whatever. I don't see a specific mention of men in there. The "family unit" is not a "right". People don't have a right to enforce their view of the "family unit" on others.

So you see absolutely no relevance whatsoever to mens rights in this article, even though it describes the very same dynamics, and blames much of the very same legislation.

What a crock.

By the way - if you want to address mod actions, take it to Meta. That is what that sub is for.

No, that sub is for burying dissent...and you only had to start it because there is so much criticism of your heavy-handed modding and ideological policing of posts. Your censorious inclinations, your sense of self-righteousness, and your firm belief that anyone that disagrees with you is a bigot are some of the main points of contention.

Thefact that you can't even converse with the redditors here because you're held in such contempt might give one pause, maybe consider othr points of view.

But no...you're so arrogant you KNOW you're right.

And you're not even an MRA. I doubt you even have a handle on the issues. In fact, I'll challenge you to write an article, 'Igs understanding of the situation men are in, and the strategy to get out of it".

Go ahead and write that one...mr Ultimate MRA Decider. I'm willing to bet a months salary you haven't got Clue One about these issues, but feel 100% entitled to decide what we 'should' do.

[–]ignatiusloyola 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ignatiusloyola 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

WBB and isolated incidents has always been a very common post type on r/MR. That hasn't changed. The facebook images thing is more common now than in the past. I am looking at addressing that. We have already done away with other such karmawhoring with rage comics and meme images.

This is not the first time long time posters complain give up and leave, and don't mistake it for a left v right split, it is split between those who want to discuss it and those (you) who don't.

Long time posters often have the view that their "say" is worth more than others'. There is also the desire to see r/MR be more democratic. But these ideas are in conflict. In a democracy, people don't get more of a vote than others. And it is very anti-democratic to want more of a vote than others.

Simply stated, the new people get as much of a say as the old in a democratic system.

[–]C0CKPUNCHER -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If you simply don't delete posts old time members can't say their forum is being hijacked. Similarly if you are sure it is the changing membership changing the nature of the board you have no need to delete posts.

I've been on forums before where their is a clash between new mods and long time members saying the quality of the content is degrading. Typically the long members leave, the mods stay and the quality does plummet.

I think this black family submission is insightful, I don't think it is insensitive, and I think those who would call it insensitive would call being anti-feminism insensitive too. To say it doesn't belong in mensrights because it overlaps with other forums is backwards, mensrights content that doesn't overlap with other forums is very limited and lacks insight. Mensrights needs to address politics, psychology, biology, economics, self help etc or our posts seem like childish demands.

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[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

For someone to have a conversation, you have to be dealing in good faith. You are trying to dictate what is acceptable and not, and abusing your power as mod to enforce YOUR POLITICAL AGENDA. I took issue with you and your comrades using a subredddit devoted to a movement I have great interest in to push a political agenda that is BARELY removed from the one we're trying to escape, and you said 'don't like it fuck off'.

now, I'm a simple redditor, not a mod. I have no power as you and Gareth are sso fond of pointing out. And you and yours are acting EXACTLY like the assholes we are trying to get to listen to us. EXACTLY like the politicans who dismiss us, EXACTLY like the feminists who laugh and say 'yeah, men have it shit. Suck it up."

I have TRIED to have a 'conversation' with you, but your arrogant, dismissive responses and personal attacks make open discussion impossible.

And that's not even mentioning your love of censorship, and how that affects the consciousness of the MRM.

You make no bones about your agenda, and then get pissed off at those who disagree. You CENSOR those who disagree.

Show me ONE instance in politics where that kind of censorship didn't lead to tyranny.

Just fuicking one.

[–]ignatiusloyola 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You are trying to dictate what is acceptable and not, and abusing your power as mod to enforce YOUR POLITICAL AGENDA.

You keep making this claim, but you have very loose evidence to go on. Do I state my opinion? Yes. So does everyone else. Do I remove conservative posts? Not as a rule. Some posts get removed that happen to be conservative, but posts get removed that happen to be feminist, too. Doesn't stop people from accusing me of being a feminist... If I remove pro-feminist/anti-MR posts, but am still accused of being a feminist, I guess that my removal of posts that happen to also be conservative would make me a conservative!

But seriously - r/MR has been open to a wide range of discussions in the past. It still is. But some things are deemed off topic. "Vote for Obama/Romney/Paul" would be off topic because, while it does affect men, that isn't what the post is about. Same with "This TV is a great product" - it affects men, because men use TVs, but it isn't about men's rights. Those are more obvious ones. Alternatively, "Obama's policy affects men in X way" would be on topic because it is directly about Obama and men.

The silly thing is that if YOU say something political, its fine because you are just sharing your opinion. If I say something political, it is censorship because I am silencing people and abusing my mod powers. How hypocritical is that?

And that's not even mentioning your love of censorship, and how that affects the consciousness of the MRM.

I have been staunchly pro-free-speech since the beginning. So this is an outright lie. Want to talk about censorship? The entire conservative group was up in arms when SRS started up, saying "remove this post! remove that post!" So it is censorship when it is something you agree with, but valid when it is something you don't? Again, hypocrisy. How about a little consistency in your own views? Bias much?

This is the last time I will respond to you as long as you keep making false accusations. If you want to disagree with me, fine. But accusing me of enforcing my political agenda requires evidence both of the act, and countering alternative explanations. Accusing me of loving censorship requires evidence of me actually loving censorship, not just not disagreeing with the removal of a post that you agree with. If you think I have an agenda, prove it.

Until then, have a nice night.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	'De-Blackifying' a controversial post...
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	3
Comments	255
Date	August 22, 2012 5:53 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yncpp/deblackifying_a_controversial_post/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/de-blackifying-a-controversial-post.1015263 https://theredarchive.com/post/1015263

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