I was trying to have a reasonable discussion about this (I'm orange). How can an open discussion exist when people simply dismiss this as "getting pissy?"

ForMensRights · 2012-06-22T07:30:47+00:00

[permanently deleted]

hardwarequestions · 2012-06-22T07:06:06+00:00

Can't be reasonable with stupid or bigoted people. Ya just can't.

EvilPundit · 2012-06-22T07:02:42+00:00

All I can suggest is persistence, persistence, persistence.

Ignorant and bigoted people will oppose you. But other people, the silent watchers, will think about what you say.

Don't worry about those whose minds are closed. You won't convince them, and that shouldn't be your goal.

Your goal should be to subtly bring around the watchers and lurkers, by making intelligent and reasonable statements - which is what you are already doing.

IsADragon · 2012-06-22T12:49:45+00:00

"Hey guys, I'm sorry but your argument is is not even worth considering because someone told me about this little thing called patriarchy. So better keep your mouth shut cause this magical catch all gender problems was propagated by the "man"(Who represents all men collectively connected by a neural network women aren't allowed access to because patriarchy)"

Looks like all our opinions are wrong guys. We should have been trying to dismantle this "patriarchy" all along. Now that we've identified the problem what can we do about it. The only thing I can think of is to stop being men so that when we discuss these issues we aren't invoking our magical patriarchy powers. /s

I fucking hate when someone plays the patriarchy card. It's absolute bullshit, even if I did subscribe to the theory, which I most assuredly don't, it's not a trunp card. If the discrimination was propagated by the patriarchy would I not still be able to complain against it? Would I not still be able to try and change even though I'm a man? It's the arrogance of assuming that all men have the exact same opinion on these issues and conspired against women and themselves in secret that really bother me. I'd really like to sit in at whatever class or session that these people attended that told them they could just blame patriarchy to "win" a discussion on anything gender related and point out how stupid that is. It just smacks of ignorance or that the person is incapable of making a valid argument as to why they believe you shouldn't have an opinion on something or worse that they don't understand the issues even remotely but were informed that they should be outraged and that the reason is patriarchy. It's not a valid tool for use in arguments and does nothing to contribute to the point you are making.

Sorry for the rant.

2012-06-22T12:58:22+00:00

It's the internet. Morons. Morons everywhere.

2012-06-22T12:12:40+00:00

It's worthless to argue with stupid people. They clearly didn't read - or they did read and chose to ignore - the points you made.

Open discussion can exist between rational individuals. Facebook feminists don't run society, fortunately.

ShitDickMcCuntFace · 2012-06-22T16:16:33+00:00

NOT ACTUALLY TRUE, AND WHEN IT IS, IT'S DUE TO PATRIARCHY

Nutshell. There it is, boys.

Doctor_Loggins · 2012-06-22T16:40:58+00:00

Synopsis:

(B) Thank you for acknowledging women's issues are still relevant.

(A) Men have issues too! For example X.

(B) OMG! Stop whining!

(C) Issue X isn't true and if it is it's because of the Patriarchy.

Now to fair, you kind of butted in and changed the topic a bit, which is a little rude, but extremely common on public forums (to the point of being expected). On the other hand, both of the people there completely overreacted and one even misrepresented what you said. I do understand why (B) would think you're out of line, even though I don't agree.

So, you may have not chosen the best time to bring up these points, but they totally reacted like femtards (especially the last one). However, this is not winning us anything. I find it best to take on the issues singly and only when it's the topic of discussion, or you will get this kind of reaction. Largely, I think this reaction is normal when an outsider comes in to a discussion and attempts to push their agenda.

Let's play to win the war instead of the battles.

Patrick5555 · 2012-06-22T08:50:48+00:00

Ill admit I was only averse to patriarchy because my name is patrick, but even after looking it up its still a load of horseshit

SenorSpicyBeans · 2012-06-22T17:15:14+00:00

I like how she's complaining that nobody thinks women's issues are relevant.

Then turns around and does exactly what she's accusing everybody else of by marginalizing men's issues.

girlwriteswhat · 2012-06-22T12:42:17+00:00

Respond to the "getting pissy" remark with more facts and substantive comment.

eleitl · 2012-06-22T14:52:43+00:00

I've given up trying to have a reasonable discussion exactly because of the attitudes you've cited.

Basically, the situation has been completely screwed up by extremists on both sides so that sane and rational people should close the door on the brawl.

On the bright side, it's still feasible to have a rational discussion in academical circles.

dandeliondriftr · 2012-06-22T11:55:34+00:00

I don't think you were getting pissy at all. I think feminists just can't handle the reality that all people should be equal, regardless of gender, and that just because you're a woman doesn't mean you are better or deserve more. I thought you raised some very valid points in a much politer manner than I would have.

2012-06-22T09:48:32+00:00

Reasonable dialog with feminists is usually impossible. You seemed to be taking a very balanced approach too.

kikibuns · 2012-06-22T15:38:24+00:00

As a woman... I'm sorry. I see my husband and my male friends struggle with this kinda mentality all the time.. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

babno · 2012-06-22T14:40:09+00:00

GUYS!!! I figured out the answer. Patriarchy still exists and it completely rampant in their goal of promoting feminism and discriminating against men.

Luriker · 2012-06-22T15:01:31+00:00

Bigots will be bigots. There's no sense trying to show people who are such shallow-minded twats anything they don't want to see, because they'll refuse it.

2012-06-22T16:37:27+00:00

women want equal rights
women want men to not have the same rights
men as a whole are in a worse place than women were 50 years ago
however, by stating this i am now a misogynist and my points are moot and ignorant
it is impossible to have a discussion with brainwashed people

KingNick · 2012-06-22T17:17:47+00:00

The 2nd and last responses made me furious.

alecbenzer · 2012-06-22T18:06:49+00:00

What the fuck is her problem? a) you weren't even responding to her comment. b) you were totally polite, didn't seem worked up about anything. c) you explicitly explained that you're not questioning anyone's reproductive rights, which two people accused you of doing anyway. d) your comment had literally nothing to do with her thanking that guy for anything -- apparently you sharing an opinion on a topic being discussed (on what I imagine was some kind of public forum?) is "getting pissy".

I do have to agree with Ms. Purple on the whole "losing faith in humanity" thing, though.

CaveExplorer · 2012-06-22T17:53:46+00:00

When I read her response to you, I was like, 'wow, she kind of gets it' but then I saw the stupid cunt after that and was like, 'back to square one.'

Fuck that bitch.

geodebug · 2012-06-22T16:41:24+00:00

I'm mostly offended by the hard to read white on black text.

2012-06-23T04:05:19+00:00

He had me until the abortion comment.

fondueguy · 2012-06-23T08:24:51+00:00

when it is it's due to patriachy

Wow, that directly contradicts patriachy - men having primary rights over their children. That is, unless feminist use the term only in ways that suite them.

alphabetpal · 2012-06-22T14:19:18+00:00

I used to be orange, too, but I laid off the spray tan and now I'm back to normal.

ReignDance · 2012-06-22T21:20:09+00:00

It's funny how blue felt that men shouldn't have a say in abortions, because "it's not the man's body". The unborn child's body isn't the woman's body either. By blue's logic, neither parent has a say.

Malkor · 2012-06-22T11:38:07+00:00

Well why did you have to bring it up in the first place? What made you feel like your two cents had to be put in? It's just like if you were to talk about men who are falsely accused of sexual crimes and she posted that one-in-four women are assaulted by people they know and most go unreported. That's what they mean by derailing.

The person who you highlighted in purple is ridiculous though.

Title	I was trying to have a reasonable discussion about this (I'm orange). How can an open discussion exist when people simply dismiss this as "getting pissy?"
Author	Doctor_Loggins
Upvotes	161
Comments	87
Date	June 22, 2012 6:39 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vfbx1/i_was_trying_to_have_a_reasonable_discussion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-was-trying-to-have-a-reasonable-discussion-about.1019309 https://theredarchive.com/post/1019309

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