A Man's Right to Choose?

SpeakToTheSky · 2012-04-02T21:14:26+00:00

This is what its about

" Karen DeCrow, former president of the National Organization for Women, writes:

"If a woman makes a unilateral decision to bring a pregnancy to term, and the biological father does not, and cannot, share in this decision, he should not be liable for 21 years of support ... autonomous women making independent decisions about their lives should not expect men to finance their choice.""

http://www.glennsacks.com/shouldnt_men_have.htm

ghebert001 · 2012-04-02T21:00:56+00:00

No one should force a woman to have an abortion, women have rights to protect them from being forced to do this.

Men should not be forced into fatherhood and lose a significant amount of income over the next 18 years of their lives, yet men have no rights to protect them from financial extortion.

Her body, her choice, her responsibility.

SpeakToTheSky · 2012-04-02T20:57:01+00:00

Women should not be forced to have abortions, but men should not be forced to subsidize her unilateral choice for 21 years.

Demonspawn · 2012-04-02T20:40:45+00:00

Google "Legal Parental Surrender"

Xenophyophore · 2012-04-02T22:35:41+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Unconfidence · 2012-04-02T23:30:08+00:00

So, here's my opinion on the matter.

After conception, the mother should have six months to determine whether or not she wants an abortion, after which time only medically necessary abortions may occur. Within the first three months, if the father may request that the child be aborted or his parental obligations terminated. After the third trimester, the father will be held to parental responsibility, barring extenuating circumstances, such as the father not knowing about the pregnancy until the second trimester or later. This gives the mother a full trimester to decide whether or not to have the child as a single parent, or to abort the fetus. This, to me, seems like the fairest way to do things, as it provides the same opportunities for both parties involved.

Lawtonfogle · 2012-04-02T23:51:25+00:00

If a fetus is a separate life, then abortion is wroth regardless of who wants what. If a fetus is part of a woman's body, then it doesn't really matter what the man wants.

That said, this only makes sense if... A. The father can declare a financial abortion. AND B. Causing an unwanted miscarriage does not amount to murder.

Both of these are false.

To put it another way, as it currently stands, the fetus is considered its own person if the mother decides to keep it, but the father's wishes do not matter. This is an inconsistency in the law that needs to be fixed.

EricTheHalibut · 2012-04-02T23:28:36+00:00

What if a man wants to abort the child and the mother wants to keep it? Should he be able to legally force her to get an abortion?

Only, perhaps, in the case of "wrongful life", but that's an entirely different argument. In ordinary cases, no.

If the child is kept, does the MRM believe the man should be able to opt out of child support payments?

Most of us do, under some structure or the other. The general consensus is that the decision should be made either before sex or before the time limit for abortion is reached, and that the decision should be irrevocable.

Perhaps beyond that, should the man be able to demand that his name be expunged from a birth certificate and that the woman be lawfully prevented from disclosing his name to her child?

Usual models suggested are that it be equivalent to either anonymous sperm donation or to adoption. I do think the father needs to be recorded where possible for medical purposes.

Alanna · 2012-04-03T00:49:46+00:00

Should he be able to legally force her to get an abortion?

No MRA I have ever heard of has espoused this, ever. The closest I've seen is a hypothetical that a man, if able to prove fraudulent conception (spermjacking and the like), should be able to force an abortion or, failing that, be able to legally sever his parental responsibilities completely.

If the child is kept, does the MRM believe the man should be able to opt out of child support payments? Perhaps beyond that, should the man be able to demand that his name be expunged from a birth certificate and that the woman be lawfully prevented from disclosing his name to her child?

Most MRAs I've seen believe parental rights and responsibilities go together. So a father who wants a parental relationship with his kids ought to pay child support. It's more analogous to the mother's option to abandon her baby to a safe haven than it is to abortion. If abortion were made illegal tomorrow, women would still have ways to opt out of parenthood and men would not. A father who does not want the responsibility of a child, though, foregoes the rights as well.

On the other hand, what if the woman wants to keep the child and the man wants to keep it? As far as I know, in the US, the father has no legal authority whatsoever to prevent her from getting an abortion.

I assume you mean the woman doesn't want to keep it and the man does. Unfortunately, until we invent artificial wombs, there's not much we can do. I feel for the man-- I'm anti-abortion myself-- but I don't agree with anyone being able to bar someone else from a legal procedure. The best I can say is to work this shit out ahead of time. It seems to me that it's more likely a woman will spontaneously change her mind to NOT get an abortion (keep it) after getting pregnant than vice versa, though I have no statistics or anything.

andr0medam31 · 2012-04-03T13:32:04+00:00

First of all, don't sleep with someone unless you know their views on pregnancy/abortion and which they would choose.

Whether to keep the fetus or abort it is the woman's choice, 100%; it's her body. Think about the consequences if this were not so. A rapist could legally force a woman to keep his spawn. A husband could force his wife to birth kids to keep her subservient. A woman could be forced into an abortion when she wanted to be a mother, or when she has an opposition to abortion. Obviously, it's her choice. She's the one who has to physically suffer the consequence of the choice.

As for paying for the kid, if a woman keeps it and the male partner had wanted an abortion, and STATED before the end of legal abortion period as to provide enough time that the woman could have attained one, that he wanted her to abort, then he should not have to pay for her choice. I'll refer to my first statement again--know these things before you bang. If the contrary to this were true, if the woman made the choice and the man had to pay regardless of his feelings, as it currently is, there's all sorts of matters of entrapment and cons. If a woman decides to keep a kid, and the male states early that he wants her to abort, then the man is cleared of burden of payment.

So if a woman gets an abortion, but the man wanted her to keep it? Sad, truly, but you can make another with someone who wants to be a mom. You can't force women to give birth to children that they don't want, as you shouldn't force men to pay for kids they never wanted.

wlpowell · 2012-04-03T00:03:15+00:00

men should have the right to opt out of being financially obligated to that woman/child?

rightsbot · 2012-04-02T20:32:19+00:00

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2012-04-02T21:12:56+00:00

What if a man wants to abort the child and the mother wants to keep it? Should he be able to legally force her to get an abortion?

Thats not what legal abortion for men is, that's an absurd idea.

Im calling troll.

2012-04-03T00:43:01+00:00

This situation involves two choices.

The practical choice of whether each party wants to take responsibility. Both parents get to make this choice.
The ethical choice of whether the mother wants to have an abortion, or to adopt. She makes this choice in light of her own views as well as the father's choice in decision 1, knowing full well that she would be taking on the whole responsibility for caring for and raising a child.

This model means that there is no situation in which the father is pressuring the mother to get an abortion, and also allows Women to keep the children for themselves if they wish without forcing the father to be involved/pay support.

semioriginality · 2012-04-03T05:07:18+00:00

No we can't force to have abortions, but we should opt out of care for the child just like women can with an abortion. We are still getting the short end of the stick, because of we want the child she can have an abortion irregardless

MrConventional · 2012-04-03T01:00:16+00:00

What if a man wants to abort the child and the mother wants to keep it?

One party desires to keep the child.

Should he be able to legally force her to get an abortion?

That is insane. Enduring an abortion is not a fucking cakewalk on any level.

If the child is kept, does the MRM believe the man should be able to opt out of child support payments?

Sadly, now we have entered a completely different discussion. I am very against "child support payments" and the system, but at that point in time you're not just talking about money; you are abandoning your son or daughter. That's fucked up beyond belief. If this is an anti-"child support" argument, man up and acquire custody of the child. Failing to acquire custody due to the court is an option. Being a punk bitch is not an option.

Beyond that, (a) should the man be able to demand that his name be expunged from a birth certificate and (b) that the woman be lawfully prevented from disclosing his name to her child?

A. No. Government records are not just for your entertainment.

B. Maybe this could be a possibility, however entirely pointless and cruel it would be. When that child starts asking about you, why would you force people to stare that innocent child in the face with a silent blank stare? The mother's parents, siblings, or friends could as easily disclose the information to the child.

The father has no legal authority whatsoever to prevent her from getting an abortion.

As men, we have the luxury of getting off and those 7 seconds of orgasm are the full extent of our work. 7 seconds of orgasm to ejaculate sperm into a woman's vagina for it to eventually develop into a human, force the woman's body through extreme changes, and wreck her neurological chemistry before forcing her through labor doesn't entitle you to control of anything. If you want to protect the child from a "simply unwanted" abortion, prepare to outlaw abortion altogether or stop fucking the type of woman that rushes directly to that option.

TL;DR: This "have your cake and eat it, too" shit is starting to feel like a circle jerk.

bovedieu · 2012-04-03T00:25:49+00:00

In keeping with the general opinion here, if she keeps it then it's hers alone.

But I also think a man should be able to demand the child is brought to term, whether by the mother, or a surrogate, or whatever. If the woman didn't take proper precaution and the man is willing to be responsible, then he deserves that chance. In the case of medical emergency, the health of the mother should always trump health of the child, because most cases where the mother dies, so does the child. But it's bullshit that she can terminate the pregnancy without his input.

Title	A Man's Right to Choose?
Author	NJ_Frost
Upvotes	17
Comments	70
Date	April 2, 2012 8:31 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/rq15m/a_mans_right_to_choose/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-mans-right-to-choose.1024799 https://theredarchive.com/post/1024799

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