Why do people accept discrimination against men based on past experiences but not discrimination against women?

mediocre_marsupial_ · 2021-07-26T07:37:08+00:00

It’s rooted in a belief that men can’t be traumatised or feel emotions and shouldn’t be scared of women because men are stronger.

Better_Repeat · 2021-07-26T09:54:49+00:00

A major factor could be the 'Women are Wonderful effect'. Research, and almost everyone's anecdotal experience, has shown that both men and women are generally more sympathetic towards women and associate more positive attributes to them. In particular,

This research found that while both women and men have more favorable views of women, women's in-group biases were 4.5 times stronger than those of men. And only women (not men) showed cognitive balance among in-group bias, identity, and self-esteem, revealing that men lack a mechanism that bolsters automatic preference for their own gender.

This suggests that women are much more strongly inclined to support each other, as a group, than men are. It could explain why various mens' movements have gained far less traction than feminism and various programmes designed to support women, even when there is indisputable evidence that women are overrepresented (e.g. in higher education). Men are valued in terms of their utility to society, while women are more generally valued for their inherent worth. Men must prove themselves to be worthy of care and sympathy, but by default are not worth consideration. It's why you get horrible-but-successful men being treated like heroes, while poor-but-good men are left to die in the street. People can certainly care about individual men, but have a much easier time dehumanising men as a group and being indifferent to their suffering.

BloomingBrains · 2021-07-26T05:46:36+00:00

Because women are frail, helpless little beings that need lots of protection from the big scary men. And because they're so feeble, they're constantly being oppressed and abused by men, so its justifiable. But don't worry, none of this is actually misogynistic at all... (/s)

But yeah, I've had the same experiences. I have trust issues with women because I've been strung along so many times when they didn't really have any interest in me. Women I have been on good terms with have suddenly decided I'm a creep appropos of nothing. Women I have been talked to suddenly started giving me silent treatment, out of nowhere. And my earliest memory of being interested in a girl in high school led to a situation where I flirted with her, and she told her friends to tell me to stay away from her. The whole school ended up finding out about it and I got labelled as a creeper. And because of these experiences, I'm hesitant to show any kind of interest, since risking my emotions has conditioned me to only believe it will end in pain.

Meanwhile you see other guys getting away with saying "How about you hop on my dick, slut" as long as they are over 6' bodybuilders. And people wonder why there are so many disillusioned men out there.

I don't think most women can understand what it does to you emotionally to not only be told nothing but "no" your whole life, but also frequently treated like a monster just for asking.

As such I see it as completely justifiable to bitch about it. Which is basically what a lot of men's forums and subs are for. 90% of the stuff you're seeing there is being said in jest, even the really dark stuff. It's guys blowing off steam.

The difference between incels and feminists though is that feminists do this stuff publicly. They let the man hate infect public conversation. I wouldn't blame a woman who had had shitty experiences with guys privately saying "yeah all men are pigs" to her friend in a moment of desperation. But when you make that a long term attitude about life, yeah I have a problem with that. Just like I have a problem with the incels, PUAs, etc. that take things too far.

But to answer your question, I think society is afraid to answer the questions that would come up if we admit to ourselves that men like us have valid reasons to feel the way we do.

echonian · 2021-07-26T10:47:22+00:00

I think it's wrong to judge all men or all women based on the isolated actions of individuals.

People are more accepting of people being, for lack of a better word, bigoted against men than against women. As least in much of the "developed" world, or places like here in the USA.

The reason for this is quite simple, and is explained easily by the way modern feminism has developed. Feminism in the modern day has made any public comments about women in general unacceptable if they are in any way bad. Yet since men lack a comparably successful movement to shame people into not accepting generalizations that make us look bad, we bare the brunt of gender-based bigotry (at least publicly, plenty of misogynists are out there for sure).

Women are seen more often as victims, and so their claims must be validated out of sympathy - even in cases where their claims are damaging or unfair.

Men are seen as the perpetrators behind harm to women and men alike, so if we make unfair generalizations - good luck finding many people who will be sympathetic to your views.

With all of that said, I do not think modern feminism is entirely to blame. Men have been seen as harmful and women as "damsels in distress" for thousands of years throughout various cultures. The only difference modern feminism brings to that culturally gendered perception is that seeing women as perpetual victims is not seen as a bad thing. Modern feminists often (though not always) will defend any behaviors that require women to be seen as vulnerable do-no-wrong types who should always be supported, unless those behaviors lead to women not being allowed their full agency as individuals.

So in summary: men are not allowed to discriminate against women because it is wrong to do so. Women are allowed to discriminate against men because of social conditioning and rationalizations which are reinforced by modern feminism, without which anybody with a brain would be able to tell that "bigotry is bad."

Edit: With that being said, it is unfortunate when people dismiss your own experiences and lack basic human sympathy. But I hope that you understand that women are not all bad just because some of them are, just as men should not be treated poorly due to the actions of a few.

Sewblon · 2021-07-26T04:58:49+00:00

Two reasons come to mind: 1. People think that men harm women more than women harm men. So, they see men distrusting women as a bigger problem than women distrusting men. 2. Some people think that women are morally superior to men. So a woman behaving badly is an outlier and conflating that with all women is prejudice. But a man behaving badly is typical and an example of male typical behavior and attitudes that needs to be corrected.

I do see why people think both of those things. Men kill women at higher rates than women kill men. However, blacks kill whites at higher rates than whites kill blacks. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/29/fact-check-meme-shows-incorrect-homicide-stats-race/5739522002/ The same people who make those inferences about men won't make those inferences about black people. So, I don't believe that those people are being consistent.

ParanoidAgnostic · 2021-07-26T04:30:59+00:00

I think that social media has screwed with people's understanding of the distinction between private conversation and public statements.

Venting in private among friends is perfectly fine and healthy even if you make sweeping, totally unsupportable, generalizations and leave out all nuance. If a woman just had a fight with her boyfriend, I totally understand her going to her friends and declaring that "all men are pigs" and all of her friends enthusiastically agreeing.

Where it becomes unacceptable is when you are broadcasting your opinion. I don't care how wronged you feel by a man, you're way out of line publicly declaring that men are pigs.

Social media gives you a public platform which at times feels private. You're sending the message out to your friends but it's visible to the entire world.

So it became totally normal to have private conversations in public. Women vilifying men was justified as a political act.

The reverse happened for men talking about women. With the loss of the distinction between private and public speech, there are calls to police men's private speech. "Locker-room talk" had to be destroyed and men were called on to shut down other men when it happened because even conversations no women are present for must be safe for women's ears.

skellious · 2021-07-26T19:29:56+00:00

Man doesn't trust women? must be an incel.

Woman doesn't trust men? must be a victim.

Stanesco1 · 2021-07-26T04:33:54+00:00

Because feminism, as a legit movement, is dead. It's all about virtue signaling and justifying their own misdoings with authority arguments.

raw_bro · 2021-07-26T05:39:52+00:00

Wtf is wrong with society

Lipshitz3 · 2021-07-26T16:21:07+00:00

Because women and men are treated differently. We live in a society rife with sexism and racism.

aerial_coitus · 2021-07-26T18:11:02+00:00

I’ve read all the comments on this thread and agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly.

My question here thus comes from a very pragmatic perspective.

Where can individual average men (middle class, caucasian, in flyover country USA, etc), go to find support for these types of issues they are facing?

FAMILY: Yes, if they have family that gives a fuck about them. Some do. Most do not. In my (albeit limited) experience, most families operate largely as a microcosm and reflection of the larger culture and society they exist in. In other words, when it really comes down to it, most families honestly do not give a fuck about their men, and fully hold their men to the same expectations that society does.

CHURCH: Normally I’d say church is a good place that is supposed to be welcoming and all that sorta warm happy stuff like that. But honestly my experience has been anything but that. Churches say they are welcoming, but the reality is that single moms are deified (as fragile victims of patriarchal oppression that need protecting), while single men are immediately looked upon with disdain and suspicion, as if the only thing that we (single men) want to do is to come into the church and immediately rape and destroy all the women. When obviously this is the furthest thing from the truth. But try convincing the church of that.

OTHER SOCIAL SUPPORT SYSTEMS: Hahahahahaha. Good luck with that. Don’t be silly. We all know that social support for women is vastly more prevalent than any social support for men. Good luck changing any of that anytime soon.

Am I wrong? Have I missed or overlooked anything?

alialahmad1997 · 2021-07-26T19:56:31+00:00

I would say you have the right to be angry and emotional for a leriod of time depending on the abuse after that fuck you you sexist

BatemaninAccounting · 2021-07-31T00:19:11+00:00

Trying to talk about this in various circles has had me labeled a misogynist, an incel, a sexist, etc.

I mean this more likely to be an issue with how you're framing things and both phrases and non-verbal clues you're signaling when you talk to people like this. Why not use this thread to discuss exactly what you're telling people?

Finesse02 · 2021-07-26T12:16:13+00:00

Do they really? I’m pretty sure all the man-hating radfems find themselves social pariahs pretty quick, same as men who go around talking openly about how much they hate women.

This sounds like something that only happens on the internet.

Title	Why do people accept discrimination against men based on past experiences but not discrimination against women?
Author	KarRuptAssassin
Upvotes	240
Comments	31
Date	July 26, 2021 3:13 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/orq9h2/why_do_people_accept_discrimination_against_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/why-do-people-accept-discrimination-against-men.1060844 https://theredarchive.com/post/1060844

Comments