Does anyone else notice a lot of female voices about the problems men face at the moment? Men wouldn't be taken seriously...

feltentragus · 2020-03-31T21:16:45+00:00

Yes. Helen Smith, in the introduction to her book "Men on Strike" said:

"The economic and psychological ramifications that men are dealing with in today's society are the perfect storm of circumstances to propel men who have been on the sidelines to fight for their own justice, rather than for justice on behalf of others. ... I will not apologize for being pro-male as so many authors and media types do. I find that disgusting. And face it, as a woman I am not going to get as much grief as a man would for saying the same thing." (emphasis in original)

Women fought for their rights, true. But they never did fight the fight alone. There were decent men who thought that two people doing the same job should be paid the same wage regardless of their gender, and who said so, and fought alongside them.

So it shouldn't be surprising that we men should find decent women willing to speak up and stand alongside us.

May we treat our allies better than feminism has treated us.

Lasers_Pew_Pew_Pew · 2020-03-31T20:15:11+00:00

Yeah... I've noticed this for quite awhile actually, that in order for there to be any voice outside of the MRA spaces, it's generally a woman that is at the helm of the discussion.

istira_balegina · 2020-03-31T20:49:55+00:00

Yes. For example, FACE the campus due process organization, is run by women.

ThatQueerWerewolf · 2020-04-01T00:48:56+00:00

Yeah, it's unfortunate that I'll be painted as a right-wing misogynist MRA if I speak up about my own issues. I guess this is why groups should really value their allies.

I wish we had more female allies because sometimes I just feel so alone and discarded in a world where harmful feminist ideology is increasingly becoming the norm for women my age.

Vandechoz · 2020-03-31T20:28:38+00:00

at the moment

As far as I can tell, it's been like this for multiple decades.

SamHanes10 · 2020-03-31T22:28:37+00:00

There was a great speech for Allison Tieman from last year's ICMI. In it, she outlined the main reason why she was standing up for men's issues. It came down to something very simple: As a woman, it was something she was better placed at doing than men, because she couldn't as easily be discounted as being a 'misogynist'. Given this, she felt it was her responsibility to stand up for men's issues.

That speech was really quite moving, and quite telling for me. As a man, I've always felt responsibility to use my unique abilities for the greater good. I'm not saying that this is felt by all men or only by men, but I do think it is a large part of the male gender role. It is both empowering and frightening. Empowering because it drives your forward. But frightening because it's not an easy thing to do and can often involve a lot of self-sacrifice.

Yet, that drive was always something I took for granted. It was just there, in the background. I've never thought of what I'd be like if I hadn't felt that drive. But Allison's speech opened my eyes about this. For many people, and I think many women, they've never felt that all encompassing drive. She had suddenly realised that she was in a unique position to do something for men. To self-sacrifice for what she believed in. And with that, she experienced the 'male' gender role, and it's unique ability to drive herself forward and make her a better person.

So despite the feminist idea that we need men to be more like women, I think it's actually the opposite. For the good of society, we need the raise girls more like boys. To use their abilities for the common good. To take responsibility. To be willing to self-sacrifice for all people, including the men in their lives. We need to stop telling girls that the world is against them. We need to stop telling them that they have problems but boys do not. We need to stop solving their problems when they complain and give them a chance to solve them by themselves. We need more agents capable of changing the world, rather than more victims expecting the world to change for them.

plitox_is_a_bitch · 2020-03-31T22:34:33+00:00

Which simply proves women have the privilege of having ownership over gender and social issues.

SchalaZeal01 · 2020-03-31T20:54:44+00:00

I can see the frustration feminists have at times when they need male voices to speak on female problems, just not to be dismissed out of hand by totalists.

What's a totalist? And the only places I could see 'we're not listening, you're a woman' happening (by anyone of import), are certainly not in the West.

TheLemming · 2020-03-31T22:30:57+00:00

Do you know a collection of places where females are representing men's health? I'm subscribed to a few subs that I believe are true, but pretty heavy towards women, and I'd love to have some more positive stuff in my feed.

Phollie · 2020-04-01T04:11:15+00:00

Men are the reason I began taking this seriously, actually.... the men that laid out facts, research, gave testimonials of their lived experiences, snapshots and screenshots of the gender violence directed at men from radical feminists.

They are not mutually exclusive. Women also have a stake in equal rights for men & boys.

I feel like MRAs who don’t belittle women or “feminists” are not taken seriously by other men half the time. Which is the real shame

Ketsuni · 2020-03-31T23:01:16+00:00

This made me smile :) great post

plitox_is_a_bitch · 2020-04-01T06:41:33+00:00

This is not to deny the value of female allies - far from it! - but there's also another phenomena at play here, and it's a piece of toxic femininity that (like most pieces of toxic femininity) are rarely called out:

Always Look Nice: women must never, ever directly attack or make another woman look bad, no matter how much they may hate or loathe that other woman or what she's doing: always look nice over everything else.

And you can see this happen all the time with feminists reacting to (or rather NOT reacting to...) female allies. Where a male MRA would be bitchkrieged, reported, and doxxed, feminists are deafeningly silent when it comes to arguing against female MRAs.

Often the most they get out is "Well, she's just internalised the patriarchy".

(It is, of course, acceptable to make raise hell against men.)

This isn't just a problem with female MRAs, but it's a piece of toxic femininity that's at play in pretty much how all women act, and has serious repercussions, and you can see this play out everyday with how women interact with each other - and how men often pay for it.

It leads to passive-aggressiveness (never attack a person directly, but coddle it in "niceness"), gossiping (don't attack the front, attack the back), deception (straight up lying to avoid looking bad), learned helplessness (expect others to fix your problems), and conflict escalation by letting things fester and refusing to deal with the problem.

We expect, and tolerate this from women.

Xemnas81 · 2020-04-01T01:01:18+00:00

Yes of course. That's kinda how gynocentrism works.

2020-04-01T02:14:22+00:00

Society just does not like men, men are only preferred out of their overall utility to the greater good of society but, women have always been idealized as being more moral and overall better people.

hatefulreason · 2020-03-31T21:01:29+00:00

let me put this in feminist speak : men going their own way -> females most affected

mewacketergi · 2020-03-31T22:38:53+00:00

Good on them.

rannerbeer · 2020-04-02T02:34:30+00:00

Yeah, there are too many women butting into men's rights discussions.

Title	Does anyone else notice a lot of female voices about the problems men face at the moment? Men wouldn't be taken seriously...
Author	Lasers_Pew_Pew_Pew
Upvotes	66
Comments	42
Date	March 31, 2020 8:08 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/fsk8el/does_anyone_else_notice_a_lot_of_female_voices/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/does-anyone-else-notice-a-lot-of-female-voices.1063763 https://theredarchive.com/post/1063763

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