Recently I've been drawn into looking at and listening to some manosphere / MRA stuff online and I'm honestly baffled by it.

Much of it seems driven by men who feel rejected by women or who had bitter divorces. They make a lot of the fact that only men can be drafted in the US, that more men commit suicide than women, that boys are failing educationally none of which is women's fault. They then complain about divorce laws and child custody. I persoanlly do not support the draft, I do think that services for mental health and to tackle male suicide should be improved / better funded and that boys failure in education should be investigated and methods found to help boys thrive in school. However I don't think women are responsible for mens suicides, mental health issues or life failures.

I don't have much experience of divorce in my circles are only one uncle of mine got divorced after his kids were adults so I can't speak much to that but the manosphere would have you believe that women marry a "beta male" for financial support while potentially raising another "alpha males" child. Then at some point (because she never really loved you) she will divorce you for someone she feels is better. Rich Cooper actually had a podcast with a male psychologist, sympathetic to the red pill ideology talking to Rollo Tomasi (one of their Guru's) about divorce and hypergamy and that psychologist who sees couples as a therapist said that he never sees that dynamic and that usually when women initiate divorce its long term issues such as substance abuse ongoing for many years without any serious attempt to get help or recover on the part of the man. In the case he used to illustrate that the woman only divorced her alcoholic husband after he was sexually inappropriate to their daughter while drunk. However in the comments the men who listened to this were saying that the man only became an alcoholic because his wife drove him to it, and that her divorcing him was still her being "hypergamous" because as an alcoholic / molestor he was no longer his best self, she felt she could do better and wanted to trade up. They ignore the fact that often after a marriage and divorce of that nature many woman never want to remarry or even have another live in relationship, many prefer boyfriend they see a few times a week or even to remain single.

On hypergamy my experience of working with very high earning women and my own experience of earning more than my male spouse (still happily married btw) was that it wasn’t that I or the other women no longer felt attracted to their lower earning partners. The cause of conflict in those relationships escalated as higher earning usually means longer hours and more time away from home travelling. I think this puts huge stress on a relationship especially when it is the women away. Typically the man becomes resentful of his partners absence, lack of presence at home, the women gets resentful that her husband isn’t picking up the slack at home with the kids / housework. In my experience men want their female partner around a lot more (fair enough) perhaps relying on her to meet more of his emotional needs or just social norms which say a guy away for work is more tolerable than the women.

Its like some men use hypergamy as an excuse to just not even try, women (hypergamous women, which they claim to see as biological fact but actually see as a moral failing) expect them to have a job, wash, not dress in dirty smelly clothes, to make an effort to converse, to be a somewhat rounded human being (is this seen as an unreasonable request). Essentially any reason a woman rejects or dumps a guy can be framed as hypergamy and lets the guy and his ego off the hook.

I wonder if hypergamy within the red pill ideology is really just a projection of how men see and quantify the world i.e. in terms of status and earning potential and where they see themselves in the pecking order with other men and that is then projected on to women?

It feels like anything a woman does in their eyes will be twisted to fit one of their theories and used as proof of how terrible women are. They seem to hate women so much and yet are obsessed with women. They hate us, don't see us as fully human or capable of love or reason but they want us as sexual objects and (unpaid) domestic servents. Now women get to a point where we can say no, I'd rather be alone than with an abusive man who hates me and uses me they have a total meltdown, the world is going to end, civiallisation will collapse all because nobody will touch their dick.

I actually read a comment on a youtube video that for a man the experience of unrequited love or desire is worse than the experience of rape for a woman! Its like for them a woman rejecting them is literal violence towards them.

The things they complain about like male suicide / educational failure / lack of father figures / the draft, none of that is womens fault but they paint it like feminisim is a zero sum game and therefore women have to get back into their box as subservient wives and mothers and give up frivolous ideas like education and careers or staying single. Its all so transparent but they like to claim they are so rational and logical and that only men like them can save the world but what are they actually doing? Nothing is stopping any of them from going out into the world and doing amazing things except that they are spending all this energy on hating women.

They accuse women of solipsism when we try to argue against their theories but fail to see that their ideologies are a perfect example of a solipsistic argument. They conflate anecdotal with empirical evidence, continually misuse and misrepresent statistics and other studies, rely on discredited science and otherwise lack awareness of anything outside the narrow confines of their ideology.

I've seen videos where red pill guru's complain about feminisim like its a conspiricy to brainwash women against men, against wanting to be stay at home mothers and that everything would be better if women just went back to being stay at home wives / mums but it fails to recognise that feminisim didn't just come from nowhere it was a reaction to the way women have been treated in the past. Yes some women were lucky and had loving husbands and fathers but many did not and they had little choice but to be dependent on them regardless of how they were treated. The had little say in if they had sex or children and lets not forget how dangerous pregancy was and still is to some extent to women. If everything were just rosy and perfect for women under the social order the red pill would have us return to we would never have left it. So its very difficult to see the red pill's views on women as little more than anger that these men can not longer control women into serving them.

I'm also aware that there is a huge financal incentive for red pill content creators to make videos, play to the crowd and indulge the worst impluses of those men for financal gain. Its sometimes doubtful how many of these gurus actually believe this stuff and how many are just playing a role for the monetary gain regardless of the damage they do.

I accept that young men are suffering but I don't think it needs to be a zero sum game, we can encourage women while also doing all we can to support young men educationally and to prevent male suicides. I am not posting this to say my opinion is especially valid as a woman or anything but just to try and understand the reasoning for this way of thinking and to just get things off my chest a bit.