Question for Men's Rights advocates: How does the men's rights movement differ from gender egalitarianism, if at all?

paladin_ranger · 2013-08-02T19:18:14+00:00

I view the men's rights mostly as a subset of egalitarianism. It's a more focused approach to solve particular problems, rather than spreading out too much to become ineffective.

eilzomalzo · 2013-08-02T18:53:12+00:00

Many of us call themselves egalitarian and many contributors to this sub don't even identify as MRAs but as egalitarian.

The obvious difference to egalitarianism is that the MRM focuses on men's issues.

avantvernacular · 2013-08-02T20:26:54+00:00

It is a subset that deals with a specific sector, like how the Fire Department is a subset of the local government, that specifically deals with fire and rescue.

egalitarian_activist · 2013-08-02T21:10:46+00:00

The men's rights movement is a form of gender egalitarism, but focuses on the ways men are discriminated against.

glassuser · 2013-08-02T21:25:31+00:00

It's a subset of egalitarianism, like womens rights advocacy is - it focuses on egalitarian issues that affect men. It differs from feminism in that it's not a separate cause that pushes for its own advancement at the expense of others.

Aaod · 2013-08-02T21:40:28+00:00

The biggest difference is we tackle mens issues first. Many of us would be gender egalitarians by definition due to wanting equality but due to how we have been treated or because we think certain things need to be worked on first to in our eyes balance the scales some would not consider us egalitarian. As I mentioned the treatment part due to how we have been treated by feminism or because feminist actively work against men in many cases we refuse to actively support them especially due to the times we have it not going well. I guess the TLDR version is to use a metaphor we are egalitarian but we bite the hand that beats us and shoves us into our cage.

Another factor to consider is many of us scratch our heads when feminists say the war is not yet won for them and do not understand what more could they want? To us the few hard issues they bring up we point out that they are either non existent/false or that they are minor compared to our points. To us the feminists won their war and are now stacking as much extra weight on the scale as they can despite it being uneven. I am not a female so I can not live a day in their shoes but neither can they live in mine and it is hard to understand each others problems because of this. TLDR version yet again most of us are willing to be egalitarians when feminism quits kicking us when we are down so to speak and until then we will fight them unfortunately and stick with being MRAs.

The_Patriarchy · 2013-08-03T05:06:40+00:00

A lot of people in this thread are mistaken.

The MRM is not a subset of egalitarianism. It has no overriding ideology, and egalitarianism is most definitely an ideology. While I believe most of us are also egalitarians, not all MRAs subscribe to those beliefs. The only prerequisite for being a men's rights advocate is that one advocate for the rights of men. You do not need to be an egalitarian to do that. And there are definitely MRAs who do not support equality. They aren't that common on this subreddit anymore, but because of this lack of overriding ideology, they have just as much a right to the label "MRA" as anyone else.

EDIT: "MRA" is not an "ism" -- the label describes one's actions, not one's beliefs.

2013-08-02T20:18:43+00:00

Gender Egalitarianism is the end goal.

Men's Rights is the movement that will take us there.

ShawnGH · 2013-08-02T21:04:36+00:00

feminism definition: the act of heterosexual congress is male on female rape by default(until the female says otherwise).

The various mens rights groups are the reaction.

DavidByron · 2013-08-02T21:36:34+00:00

You didn't ask but anti-feminism differs from gender egalitarianism because it's anti-hate advocacy. ie criticising the hate mongers directly rather than some other aspect of pursuing equality.

2013-08-02T23:01:51+00:00

Honestly, asking a question like this is like looking at a painting and asking a professor "Well, what does this mean to -you-"

Men's rights and feminism are different for everyone. For some people, Feminism is a way for women to turn the tables on men and create a society where women hold absolute authority over men. For some people, Men's rights is a community for which to whine and complain about their ex's inability to give blowjobs.

For me the difference between men's rights and egalitarianism is that men's rights focuses on, well, the gender rights of men. It doesn't say that women's rights aren't important, but it does say that women are well taken care of in society, and there needs to be some men's rights issues taken care of now that affirmative action has done it's work.

iMADEthis2post · 2013-08-03T02:07:08+00:00

Mens rights differs from egalitarianism in that it focuses on the male, mens rights looks for equality under the law and protection under the law mainly but it is not limited to these areas.

I regard myself to be egalitarian, I also identify as an advocate for men's rights. A feminist can just as easily identify as egalitarian (A rare breed on the internet) such as my SO does, which is to say she doesn't just claim to be egalitarian, she has a positive interest in mens issues and supports them because they are justified. Feminism in general seems to be infested with entrenched misandry, both at the academic and activist level but many will claim to be about equality and egalitarianism, sadly it's pretty easy to show most of them up as bigots once explained what is meant by equality and how it will affect areas they have greater privilege in. They get a bit pissy when we point out many, many women are sex offenders, child abusers, spousal abusers and so forth and start with the rather unscientific shaming when evidence is used to prove these points.

But anyway the MRM is a civil rights movement, egalitarianism is the belief that people are equal, even if different and should be given the rights and opportunities everyone has. The womans rights movement is also a civil rights movement which should not be confused with feminism regardless of the obvious ties, feminism is a gendered ideology, nothing more. This by the way doesn't mean it has to harmful to men but numerous areas of it happen to be that way. For instance internalised feminism, understanding what it is to be a woman outside of the male sphere is not harmful to men.

2013-08-03T03:27:17+00:00

Ideally MR is egalitarian. It should be and falls under that definition with the ideal of equality. Egalitarians are a variety of groups seeking equality in humanity not necessarily a competing ideal in any way with MR. MR is no different then any other egalitarian movement.. it isn't separate, MR is egalitarian.

rightsbot · 2013-08-02T18:46:17+00:00

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baskandpurr · 2013-08-02T22:37:57+00:00

The idea of being Egalitarian sounds like it wouldn't be effective. Feminism, and society at large, pulls men in a specific direction. MRAs pull in the opposite direction, Egalitarians ask for balance. I think the MRM will achieve balance where Egalitarianism would just be pulled around. The desired outcome is the same, the method of getting there is very different.

2013-08-05T00:34:58+00:00

"Men's rights" is a blanket term for various philosophical arguments on gender as they apply to men's rights.

"Gender egalitarianism" is a blanket term for philosophies that focus on equality between all genders.

The difference is that the MRM focuses on men's human rights, GE focuses on equality, Sometimes those are one and the same thing according to some MRAs and some GEs, sometimes they aren't according to other MRAs and other GEs.

CaptSnap · 2013-08-02T19:30:11+00:00

It doesnt. In fact I would say both Men's Rights and Feminism are ideologically both sides of the same coin of egalitarianism through a gendered lens.

I think of it as a gender egalitarianist is babysitting two spoiled petulant kids. One is feminist and the is MR. A vase is broken and the egalitarianist has to sit and listen to both sides. It would be like if you only asked one kid what happened, believed absolutely everything they said, and told the other kid to shut up and check their privilege. So I dont begrudge feminism...at all. I just think its dominated the discussions to the extent that the other side is too easily dismissed. Thats not only counterproductive its so ridiculously unnecessary. But ultimately I think it would be just as disastrous if MR's were to dominate the discussion. To be fair, to be a true egalitarian you HAVE to ask both and you have to have both to ask. (and dont forget nor neglect those that arent so easily lumped! this is all just generalizing, not disenfranchising)

We are all egalitarians, we just have two (or more!) basically different points of view that we bring to the table. I truely believe most feminists and most MRA's want to make the world a better place and for everyone to be able to live togethor and love each other better, I just think the most logical way, and possibly the ONLY way, to get there is to accept we all want the same thing and listen to each other's perspectives on what is holding us, all of us, back.

Ma99ie · 2013-08-02T19:14:01+00:00

We're better.

GenderEqualityKing · 2013-08-02T18:47:48+00:00

I'm not a supporter of the men's rights movement because I believe the movement posits that men are the "oppressed" gender (I think that the female sex is the oppressed gender).

By contrast, I believe that "gender egalitarianism" does not look to see WHICH is the oppressed gender first. Gender egalitarianism is interested in exploring gender issues for women and for men. In this way, I support gender egalitarianism.

Having said that, I sympathize with the men's rights movement because feminism would do anything in the world but allow for the fact that gender roles are having a negative impact on men and are really hurting men (in some very tangible ways).

Title	Question for Men's Rights advocates: How does the men's rights movement differ from gender egalitarianism, if at all?
Author	eilzomalzo
Upvotes	35
Comments	112
Date	August 2, 2013 6:44 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1jkwcv/question_for_mens_rights_advocates_how_does_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/question-for-mens-rights-advocates-how-does-the.1167336 https://theredarchive.com/post/1167336

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