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A reminder - don't be the Nice Guy.

euph0r1a

June 17, 2013

164 upvotes

/r/seduction

http://youngmansurvivalguide.com/nice-guys-will-always-finish-last/

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Post Information

Title	A reminder - don't be the Nice Guy.
Author	euph0r1a
Upvotes	164
Comments	76
Date	June 17, 2013 3:40 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1ghrmw/a_reminder_dont_be_the_nice_guy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/a-reminder-dont-be-the-nice-guy.1353964 https://theredarchive.com/post/1353964

Comments

[–]yubman 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]InternetFree -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheCuriousDude 19 points20 points21 points 13 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]euph0r1a[S] 29 points30 points31 points 13 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Gr8WhiteGrammarNazi 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Streetfarm 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]wristcontrol 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Streetfarm 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]IWriteFlawlessPapers 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Streetfarm 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]IWriteFlawlessPapers 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Context and inflection.

Dinner with his girlfriend and her best friend. We don't know where, but it sounds like it's a more formal setting than a Burger King. Based on OP's response, he felt the friend was screening his value/worth in front of his girlfriend. Now the friend's inflection in the situation is important - we don't know how she's asking these questions, but I can imagine based on his attitude toward her in his original comment, he doesn't like her as a person, and she's probably asking these questions in an interrogative manner .

That probably creates a bias.

But say he didn't want to talk about those probing subjects, he'd feel uncomfortable about this random 'best friend' asking him that line of questions in front of his girlfriend in a dinner setting. Maybe he gave contextual cues to stop probing, but she didn't take the hint for x, y or z reason. Maybe she's genuinely curious, and OP is over-thinking everything based on how he thinks of her. Maybe OP is a stupid dumbfuck who cannot gauge whether or not something is appropriate given a situation.

I guess what I'm getting at is we can't really tell, but we can give OP the benefit of the doubt and believe that he believes it's rude in that situation.

[–]euph0r1a[S] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Streetfarm 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trosso 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Streetfarm -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Streetfarm0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chanyourmind 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheCuriousDude 24 points25 points26 points 13 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

The author of the article I posted isn't a feminist.
In an exercise of cognitive dissonance, people seem to reason that if nice guys aren't attracting women, they probably aren't very nice in the first place. They're manipulators or entitled doormats. Don't get me wrong: some dudes are entitled as fuck. However, there's a false equivalence between nice guys complaining about their lack of success in the dating game and guys being entitled. The problem is similar to the current job market. We had an entire generation of people raised to believe that if they study hard and get a degree, they'll get a job. They then complain in dismay when they find that's not the truth. Then, like women complaining about nice guys being manipulative or entitled, parents and the rest of the previous generation complain about the current generation being entitled. Rather than giving usable advice, people admonish the dudes seeking help or even imply that you HAVE to be an arrogant asshole or a cocky douchebag to get women.

^*typo

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Its important to note as well that we're given conflicting signals about how to behave with women. We're expected to be kind, respectful, generous, thoughtful and open minded. Traits that we can loosely define as "nice".

We're also simultaneously expected to be strongly opined, loud, extroverted, strong, rugged, self-directed, emotionally strong, passionate, flirty, boisterous.

These two personas aren't one that you'd typically find in a single person, usually its between two people. Both have a lot of value and a lot to give as either a lover or boyfriend or whatever, but expecting both to be both is a problem.

The thing is girls say they want a nice, down to earth, kind gentleman, but they simply can't force themselves to be attracted to that person. No matter if that's who they want to settle down with.

[–]piperson 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheCuriousDude 9 points10 points11 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]zdeminador3 points 13 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]euph0r1a[S] 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ltkernelsanders 10 points11 points12 points 13 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

From the book

1 If it frightens you, do it.

2 Don't settle. Every time you settle, you get exactly what you settled for.

3 Put yourself first.

4 No matter what happens, you will handle it.

5 Whatever you do, do it 100%.

6 If you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always got.

7 You are the only person on this planet responsible for your needs, wants, and happiness

8 Ask for what you want.

9 If what you are doing isn't working, try something different.

10 Be clear and direct.

11 Learn to say "no."

12 Don't make excuses.

13 If you are an adult, you are old enough to make your own rules.

14 Let people help you.

15 Be honest with yourself.

16 Do not let anyone treat you badly. No one. Ever.

17 Remove yourself from a bad situation instead of waiting for the situation to change

18 Don't tolerate the intolerable — ever.

19 Stop blaming. Victims never succeed.

20 Live with integrity. Decide what feels right to you, then do it.

21 Accept the consequences of your actions.

22 Be good to yourself.

23 Think "abundance."

24 Face difficult situations and conflict head on.

25 Don't do anything in secret.

26 Do it now.

27 Be willing to let go of what you have so you can get what you want.

28 Have fun. If you are not having fun, something is wrong.

29 Give yourself room to fail. There are no mistakes, only learning experiences.

30 Control is an illusion. Let go; let life happen.

[–]gandilf 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ltkernelsanders 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]projectself 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rph23 7 points8 points9 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]arcalumis 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So why is this bever brought up when talking about "nice guys"? More or less every post I've read about nice guys have started with "have you ever been called x", list a copule of things that might be true.

And boom "it's because you're needy and socially underdeveloped", so, every nice guy is needy and underdeveloped? Yes, this really sounds like an objective post that tries to help and not to trip.

Where is the blog post about "don't be a genuinely nice/good/whatever you want to call it becasue that doesn't work either" I remember pickup guides actually bringing the fact up that you can be a nice guy without being needy and still get nowhere, but instead everyone is shifting blame around.

For a community that has "Don't put the pussy on a piedestal" as an adage really seem to do that a lot.

[–]UnapologeticalyAlive 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+]InternetFree -10 points-9 points-8 points 13 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

As a manipulative douchebag: Wrong.

If you want to fuck hot girls: Lie. Always lie. If a lie is discovered, make up a bigger lie. Manipulate people. Everything else is an inferior strategy except you want committed long-term relationships.

Being yourself is only a good idea if you are naturally a person that women like (which I am most definitely not, if people knew the things I really liked and I would behave in a way that would be naturally comfortable for me and be honest about it... both men as well as women would hate me).

Edit: You people are on seddit but still deluded enough to downvote my comment? You have much to learn about the reality you live in. Go on, though, always try and behave naturally, always try to be yourself without shame. See where that will lead you if you don't happen to have naturally attractive interests and behaviours. ;)

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]InternetFree -5 points-4 points-3 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]InternetFree 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I used to do this game stuff too, never like this.

Uhm, huh?

But seriously dude there is something wrong with you.

What is wrong with me? You do realize that my behaviour breeds success, correct?

I think your problem is low confidence and uncertainty, no offense.

What would you bring to that conclusion?

Who cares if people find your interest unappealing

Well, you, quite obviously, considering you are trying to argue against me.

as long as you are not a pedofile, rapist, necrofil or wormeater and along these lines, it doesent matter.

Of course it does matter. It matters a lot. If you want to fuck hardcore catholic girls with terrible parents then you need to follow their stupid rules. You won't get anywhere if you say you are an atheist and think Christianity is made-up nonsense.

And this is true for most other people, too. Because people are idiots.

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]InternetFree -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]L33tMasta 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hiding_in_the_Shower 19 points20 points21 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]InternetFree 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Confidence, assertiveness, cockiness, and leadership(sometimes).

Well, nice guys don't have those qualities,because... well, for being nice you would have to abandon those qualities.

A nice guy would:
- Never be confident but always question himself. Always think about all his flaws and mistakes first before acting.
- Never try to assert his opinion because he would always consider everyone's opinion.
- Never be cocky (self-explanatory).
- Never lead and give the job to someone else, because "those who want to lead are the least qualified to do so".

So, women quite obviously want assholes. As the characteristics that make you an asshole are the characteristics that they find attractive.

You don't find that in the typical "nice guy" but you do find it very often in your typical "ass hole"

Exactly.

So no, women are not looking for asshole's, just the qualities that they generally have.

Seriously, maybe you should think about that statement for some time...

[–]Hiding_in_the_Shower 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I have thought about this statement quite a bit. Character traits such as the ones I listed above are not exclusively held by assholes. It's all in how you use it. I can be a strong, confident, assertive male without being a dick to everyone. And you can bet your ass that it's attractive to women.

Your description of a "nice guy" is accurate when you portray him the way seddit normally refers to them. But a nice guy doesn't have to mean a pushover. There's no reason someone can't be nice while still asserting himself and not being walked all over by women.

Let's look at your description of a "nice guy" for a second.

A nice guy would:

Never be confident but always question himself. Always think about all his flaws and mistakes first before acting.

Never try to assert his opinion because he would always consider everyone's opinion.

Never be cocky (self-explanatory).

Never lead and give the job to someone else, because "those who want to lead are the least qualified to do so".

A non-asshole non-nice guy would:

Be confident and not question himself (Not really descriptive of an asshole)

Assert's his opinion (So having an opinion makes you an asshole?)

Never be cocky (I'll admit, this can be bad or good. If not overused, it doesn't have to mean "asshole")

Be a leader (Plenty of good leaders are not ass holes. Infact, arguably the best leaders are the ones that everyone loves and respects)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I swear to god, the term "nice guy" has become so tainted its become an insult.

But I get it though. I consider myself a kind human being, but I know that when I am a kind, gentle, soul who's the embodiment of the milk of human kindness, girls find that really unattractive. Don't get me wrong, they approve and nod quietly to themselves thinking "that guy would make a really nice boyfriend for some lucky girl."

Then they act surprised - at best they find it cute, at worst they find it repellent - when you suddenly spring up that you're into them. Its an unfortunate side-effect of the whole caveman thing. Being "nice" is not sexy. If you're a nice guy you might get lucky, like a one in ten million shot at a girl who likes your personality and genuinely falls for you. But honestly, you've got a better shot at winning the Superbowl by yourself against a battle hardened team of veteran football players than finding that girl. And let me put it to you that even if you do, you probably don't deserve her.

Nice guys were once weeded out. It was the roaring alphas that came into the cave and banged the hottest girls with the widest hips in the room. The passive genetic dead ends should have died, but they persisted.

Our society somehow holds these really dissonant ideas that at once guys have to be masculine and assertive and simultaneously kind and caring. You have to have multiple personality disorder to juggle that many scented candles. Its a neat idea, but as men, we will gravitate to what scores us the maximum success and reward for our actions.

In theory, this should have rewarded the whole "nice guy" angle; but lo and behold a generation of boys raised to believe that they should be kind, thoughtful and caring by women to women meant that they have no idea what actually attracts a woman. Their mothers and sisters and teachers all portray their ideal man as a character made up of different personality traits that in theory if molded together would give them a perfect man, but instead produces as all scientific experiments are like to do in the testing stage, a frankensteinian "nice guy" - a passive deluded fool who thinks that by carrying her shopping and doing her math homework she'll stop dating the assholes that pick her up in bars and fall for his pasty, weak ass. Life doesn't reward passivity.

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[–]Ag_in_China -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I consider myself an equal to others, but I don't believe anyone has the right or ability to tell me how I should act, feel or think about myself. Being an asshole implies that you had no regard for other people. It implies you are not kind in any way. It means you are an entitled person who gets what you want at the expense of other people.

Maybe I'm an idealist, but I don't believe seddit is about getting laid. Seddit is about being able to be yourself, to not bend for others and to build strong relationships with both men and women. Be strong in who you want to be and don't be a dick about it.

However I will agree that being an asshole will get you women. You have to ask what sort of women though. I just know that if I have to be a massive dick to get a woman, I don't want that woman.

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