Why didn't MensRights do much?

ElisaSKy · 2024-03-04T18:26:11+00:00

In order:

How true is that? Feminism had, and still do have, financial backing measured in billions of $ annually as well as telling society what it wants to hear. Men's rights have, at most, a couple millions (but probably closer to a couple of hundred ks) budget and tell society things that go against it's beliefs. So we're outnumbered, outgunned and outfunded, yet we still manage to hold out and get a few solid punches every once in a while.

Why is that? Because most people care about women's wellbeing, while they care more about animals than men.

Is there a solution? If I had one the problem would have been solved already. If there is one, I don't have it.

Why isn't that true? Because it's based on The Patriarchy, that conspiracy conjecture that men run the world for the benefit of other men. And yet, in spite of supposedly running the world for the benefit of other men, Anyone with an IQ above room temperature (I'm from Europe. I use Celsius. For anyone using Farhenheit, the Celsius scale produces lower numbers) should be able to question the idea that society is ran for the benefit of men when they live under a set of laws that has several laws that advantage women but none that advantage men.

ggleblanc2 · 2024-03-04T17:41:47+00:00

Thanks to Amber Heard (mostly), we've gone from "Men are domestic abusers" to "Most domestic abusers are men" in just a few years.

Be patient. It'll take around 10,000 years for men to get full human rights. In the meantime, go your own way and don't participate in anything that makes men second-class.

WhereProgressIsMade · 2024-03-04T17:49:16+00:00

Feminism made many historical achievements while MR didn't make any significant progress

It's because society & culture is gynocentric (and has been for at least the past 500 years when courtly love got grafted into chivalry).

It was men that voted to give women the right to vote in the US (the majority of women actually opposed it) but you don't see many women trying to use their influence to try to help with any of boys/mens issues.

Menslib

Menslib seems to mostly be male feminists. In fact, when men post on many feminist subs, that's where they send them.

The fundamental problem with telling men they should act more feminine is that hetro women aren't very attracted to men like that. I haven't been able to find anything on how much of what women are attracted to is biology and how much is cultural influence. The most I've found is the area of the brain responsible for attraction develops during puberty and then becomes non-plastic, meaning it can't learn anything new. So once that happens, no amount of propaganda is going to change what that woman is attracted to. If it's bad boys with "toxic masculinity", it's going to stay that way for the rest of her life (and why men should pass on any women with that in her past). It's possible you could influence how it develops during puberty to steer the next generation a different way.

If this has occurred, I'd argue it's been feminism teaching the generation of women in their 20s now to party it up and mess around with any hawt bad boys that catches their eye instead of steering away from this "toxic masculinity" and going for the more boring, but reliable options that would make better husbands and fathers. Past generations of women steered their daughters this way. How attracted they were to them is questionable though.

63daddy · 2024-03-05T01:07:43+00:00

Feminism had gynocentrism aiding it. The MRM in contrast now has to fight against both gynocentrism and feminist propaganda. It’s a huge uphill battle. Feminism has more funding, has a foot hold in education, has more media influence and a stronger lobby.

Present_League9106 · 2024-03-05T02:33:57+00:00

Why are there so many posts about the MRM not making enough of a difference today?

Most people have pointed out that gynocentrism and feminism get in the way of advocacy for men, and that's basically it. Even before women could vote by-in-large, women could more effective at lobbying government as a group than men have ever been. That's gynocentrism.

I'll focus more on the Patriarchy/"toxic masculinity"/Menslib aspect since it's been somewhat overlooked:

There is no patriarchy. That's the first thing to understand. The entire idea doesn't have logical continuity. Why would a society designed for a certain class of people also collectively band together to prevent that class from getting resources, to ostracized them, or to corral them with longer jail/prison sentences? The answer is that society isn't designed to benefit this class. This brings us back to the question of feminism being more successful than the MRM and gynocentrism being a primary reason. Society works more to benefit women than men despite the narrative -- but the narrative does exist for a reason.

Regarding the idea that overcoming patriarchy will help men: How does society overcome something that they believe to exist even though it doesn't? They don't. In this respect, men will never benefit going down that path. This is why Menslib is delusional and an affront to the concept of "liberation."

Regarding "toxic masculinity": at some point you have to ask what is it? I know people have something that they think of when they hear it -- I do myself -- but can you explain what that is? Can you put it to words in such a way that it doesn't conflict with what can be seen as "positive" masculinity? I haven't seen a very thorough explanation that separates toxic from positive masculinity, which suggests to me that the entire idea exists as an impossible hurdle for men to overcome.

TLDR; gynocentrism and feminism are roadblocks for men's advocacy, patriarchy doesn't exist in the west (though i cant say much for the rest of the world), "toxic masculinity" is an abuse tactic, and Menslib will never do anything to actually liberate men from gender roles.

dependency_injector · 2024-03-05T06:14:17+00:00

without toxic masculinity and the patriarchy men wouldn't suffer from these problems. Why is(n't) that true?

It is true, if by both "toxic masculinity" and "patriarchy" you mean "men". Without men, men wouldn't suffer, makes sense.

Demonspawn · 2024-03-05T16:52:53+00:00

There are 3 solutions to feminism:

Revolt
Expat
Turtle

Quite simply: there is no political solution to feminism. Women control 56% of suffrage, women (strongly) and men (weakly) put women's issues above men's issues, men pay 75% of taxes, and women receive 80% of welfare. As long as those conditions exist, government will take more from men to give to women in order to buy women's votes ($2T/yr last I did the math). It's a win/win for government: they get (re)elected and government grows so they get more power.

The only solutions are to remove women's suffrage (1), escape women's suffrage (2), or prepare for the collapse that women's suffrage will bring so you can rebuild on the other side (3).

Cursory_Lawlessness · 2024-03-05T01:59:20+00:00

Why in god's holy name are you talking to feminists? They should be avoided, not entertained.

UWontHearMeAnyway · 2024-03-05T04:06:09+00:00

I think it's because feminism has never been about women's rights. It's been about power.

Men's rights has been about men's rights. Rational, within reason. Has nothing to do with power.

Trying to seize power is loud, and makes big changes. Quiet plea towards a rational outcome, that's quiet and the tyrants see it as complaining

konous · 2024-03-05T12:55:46+00:00

The reason you think we haven't done anythibg is because you haven't been looking.

We were a huge part of the Civil Rights movement when Feminism wanted an ally movement to bridge the gap between the Anti-Draft Movement and Feminism. Warren Farrel literally worked wirh Gloria Steinem.

We opened uo the first state sponsored domestic violence shelters for dudes.

WE are the ones responsible for bringing the suicides of men to the forefront of conversation.

We've done shit. People just pretend we don't exist.

Extreme_Spread9636 · 2024-03-05T15:10:19+00:00

What issues is Menslib tackling and how does Menslib want to solve them?

OppositeBeautiful601 · 2024-03-05T15:21:51+00:00

Menslib is ok, but it's not men's advocacy. They tend to believe that for men to address their issues, that men themselves change to adapt to the new world we live in. That seems to make sense. Additionally, they tend to believe that for women to address their issues, the world must change to adapt to women's expectations. Wait, what?

IronJohnMRA · 2024-03-06T13:31:24+00:00

We don't have the money.

Main-Tiger8593 · 2024-03-05T11:40:57+00:00

if you translate what feminists say...

patriarchy = conservatism

female oppression = performance based society

toxic masculinity = unacceptable behavior

the issue is mras should advocate for gender neutrality "human rights are universal" but some feminists gender almost any issue and use double standards in various areas...

feminism vs mra

KaliTheCat "mod of askfeminists"

(topic - what mra get right)

I think many of their complaints are legitimate-- that poor men are often exploited for dangerous, cheap labor; that there isn't much social or cultural support for male victims of sexual and domestic violence; that hegemonic masculinity can be stifling and fragile; that men and boys are lonelier than ever before; that male infant circumcision is still legal and widely practiced in some areas; etc.

However, instead of directing their efforts towards criticisms of and activism against capitalism, nationalism, patriarchy, and other oppressive systems that are the cause of those issues, they simply blame women and feminism for their problems.

Title	Why didn't MensRights do much?
Author	RedSpear456
Upvotes	27
Comments	20
Date	March 4, 2024 4:04 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1b6el56/why_didnt_mensrights_do_much/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-didnt-mensrights-do-much.1426958 https://theredarchive.com/post/1426958

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