Models by Mark Manson - What is Neediness?

TooHoly999 · 2018-04-07T13:41:16+00:00

Investment. Like if I went on a first date with a girl and told her that I wanted to marry her, she would immediately be creeped out because she doesn't feel the same way emotionally. You're always supposed to be a few levels below what she's feeling. That's neediness regarding women.

Neediness in every day life is more about seeking validation. If I post a dirty mirror selfie of myself, that's pretty needy because I'm a man but I still need my looks validated by others.

Basically anything that demonstrates emotional dependency on others is pretty needy. Like sending four texts for her every one.

ImStatus · 2018-04-07T16:56:42+00:00

Posting this as it's own comment, incase reddit does the get burried thing on the one I responded to, incase someone else might benefit

Man, I read some of the responses to other comments, and you're just not getting it fully, and that's okay.

Neediness is about defining your life by someone else's terms, placing someone on a pedistal, deriving your self-worth from external validation, being supplicative, over investing, and sacrificing your own values for those of someone else.

Models talks a lot about vulnerability - and the idea that being vulnerable while being non-needy can be very attractive. However, being vulnerable for the sake of it would be needy.

If you tell your girlfriend you want to be pegged in the ass BECAUSE you need to hear her say that's okay, you're being needy. If you tell her that because you're totally okay with her potentially being like dude that's nasty, but you want to explore new shit anyhow - then that's not that needy.

Mystery and Style talked a lot about the concept of Frame. While I disagree with a lot of what those two say, the concept of frame stuck with me - and when you're needy, it shows through in body language, tonality of voice, and vocabulary choice.

This is why two people can say the EXACT same thing, and one of them be attractive, and one of them be creepy.

One of the great struggles of seduction/pua shit, is the fact that you're here because you want this - you're invested in your own success, and you've defined goals and metrics for that success. You're automatically going to be invested in the outcome of interactions, because it's a skill you're trying to hone.

Much like a major league pitcher is absolutely invested in every at bat, you'll be invested in every girl you approach to some extent.

A lot of PUA shit is about faking it til you make it, and that's the shortcut. Eventually neediness shines through.

The real end goal is developing a life in which you're busy, engaged in life, and full of self-worth (Note, not narcisism) so that what any one particular woman does isn't a huge affect on you.

Women are less needy initially because they live in an abundance mentality. They can go to any bar on any night and get laid, even unattractive ones.

Few guys can do this, and for the most part guys wind up in a scarcity mentality.

If you can reach an abundance mentality, you'll be significantly better off - but part of getting there is a road of self development and self reflection that is long and hard.

Do you go to the gym? are you dedicated to bettering yourself, and doing it FOR yourself? What about new skills?

Think of your life as a jar, and different things you do as marbles. You want to fill that jar with the coolest fucking marbles you can.

One of my marbles is salsa dancing, just because I think it's fun. I legitimately enjoy dancing with a beautiful woman, so much so that the last girl I danced with (she was teaching me some different stuff, swing type stuff and other less structured stuff) she couldn't stop smiling the entire time.

I'd spin her and pull her close and she'd have this gorgeous huge grin on her face - I finally asked her playfully what has her smiling so much and she said "you, you're just so giddy and enjoying yourself, it's so much fun".

Shit you love and are passionate about, that shit rubs off and shines through and people want to be around that.

I'm not saying go start salsa dancing, that may not work for you, because it may just not be your thing.

But find your passion, fill your jar with super awesome marbles, and watch how different your life becomes.

I've regularly gotten laid after talking about some SUPER nerdy shit most guys would say not to talk to girls about - just because it's passionate and genuine.

Shit like Battlestar galactica, world of warcraft (Haven't played in years extensively, but I no lifed that shit a long time ago), space shit, star wars, whatever.

The thing that all of you need to realize in regards to neediness etc - is that 90% of communication is non verbal. You can literally say whatever the fuck you want to, so long as you say it right.

There's an interesting scene in one of the mission impossible movies, at the beginning. Tom Cruise's character is a traffic analyst or something super boring as a cover job, and is at a party with his soon to be wife, meeting her friends and family and such.

He goes on this mini tangent about how traffic has a pulse, and someone hitting breaks causes this chain reaction, that you can track over a 200 mile stretch, how it has a memory and is a living organism.

Traffic is something EVERYONE hates. It's not something interesting to talk about, and is typically reserved for boring conversation.

Cruise delivers that with passion and intensity, although a little bit fast (I think it would have been better with a slower tempo) and the two women listening (he was focused on a dude), both agree they'd marry him, while the dude is eye rolling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMYognL2t4 There's a shit link.

The thing about this scene is, sure it's a movie, and sure it's all made up, but that writer/director etc - someone witnessed something like this happen in person, and then used it in the movie. I've asked a few women about that specific scene and they all agreed that if they met that guy in a bar, and he walked away - they'd go re initiate.

Fucking traffic.

Hope this shit helps.

Conotocaurious85 · 2018-04-07T14:22:12+00:00

Mark Manson's book is good book!

At it's core neediness is a yearning to be loved the way you want to be loved. Plus thinking that a woman can love you the way you want to be loved.

There are levels above this, which includes external validation.

meminem · 2018-04-07T15:08:29+00:00

Neediness, in the terms described above, caught me off guard because I feel like usually caring about what other people think is what's construed as neediness. It seems that Manson is taking the concept one step deeper by saying that your need to attend to your own perceptions of things over recognizing others' perceptions is neediness. For example, wanting to feel valuable puts your perception of feeling valued over the other people's perception of you being valuable to them. Attending to others is neither needy or selfless in isolation, but how you do it, ei, for your own gratification (your perceptions) or for their benefit (their perceptions) is the difference. Your needy if you put how you want things to turn out ahead of other people's conceptions of reality and how it should turn out, putting them in a position to either support you out of selflessness (putting your perception above theirs in importance and choosing to support you, which prioritizes your needs bc their preferred reality is you not being needy), or to disengage because that's annoying behavior. Does this clear thing up at all?

alias_guy88 · 2018-04-08T09:56:24+00:00

So I've read the book and really liked it. The think is that I don't really understand the concept "neediness" fully.

Neediness is demonstrating behavior that instills the value of low self perception, neediness in its rawest form is not living honestly and demonstrating high investment. For example, I go on a date with a woman and she tells me she hates dogs. I know I love dogs, but to make sure we have things in common I tell her I hate dogs. It's like a bad smell, women pick it up straight away, if you perform well you can get away with it, but eventually you'll slip up.

Mark wrote that it is caring about my perception more than the perception of others, but what does it mean?

You worry about what people think rather than being and living honestly.

Girl: I like your hair shorter, don't you think you look better with your hair shorter? Because I do. (Actually likes his hair longer) GUY: Yeah you're right, I'm going to cut my hair it's starting to annoy me.

He isn't living honestly, and although he believes he's doing the right thing by living by what she find attractive, in reality, it would be even more attractive if he just did what he wanted to do. His reply should be:

Guy: I like my hair a little longer, I might tidy it up a little bit, but I was going to do that anyway.

peanutnutter250 · 2018-04-08T10:45:56+00:00

Short and sweet version:

If you ever think "I'll do this to get her/them to like me" = needy

If you think "i want to do this, and I'm doing it because I want to do it"= not needy

Basically, you should make yourself as happy as possible without other people

whenfoom · 2018-04-07T15:26:22+00:00

Sacrificing your boundaries and standards to get something that manly guys don't care about.

egoadvocate · 2018-04-07T15:26:26+00:00

I think neediness has to do with control.

A needy person uses control techniques to get what they want. They act in artificial ways to be accepted, use passive-aggression, and other forms of control.

Also, a needy person does not 'play by the rules'. Playing by the rules is respecting your partner's preferences about how they want to be touched, approached, spoken to, and other behaviors done together.

A needy person also persists in the face of obvious rejection. Respecting the other person's desire not to be around you is important, staying away from them is playing by the rules. It is okay to check-in every once in a while, about every month or so.

Non-neediness is NOT 'doing whatever the fuck you want'. Doing whatever the fuck you want is actually psychopathic and antisocial behavior. I do not recommend it for building trust in social relations. Now, asking respectfully for whatever the fuck you want, and receiving the answers gracefully, that is totally okay.

This idea of 'always being a few levels below what she is feeling' could be a good rule of thumb for not being too needy, I guess. That rule might be a little too artificial though, and it might result in outcomes that are less than satisfying. I think a better rule would be to always be keenly aware of the nonverbal signals that she is sending, and making your moves strictly according to verbal and nonverbal feedback you are getting.

I think that neediness is also 'acting too quickly'. Relationships take time to develop, on the order of years. I am serious! If you rush things, your relationships will not go well. Be patient. Take a long-term view. Go slow. Do not quickly escalate ahead of the reasonably accepted timelines of your partner. Be prepared to wait 1 year to 1.5 years for a relationship to go from friendship to girlfriend status. This is why you are always dating other people, to have parallel relationships so that you can find success in a reasonable time frame.

astrokidd · 2018-04-07T17:00:17+00:00

When you are happy regardless whether you get sex or not, you are considered non-needy.

When you are happy regardless whether you get approval or not, you are considered confident. Approval = feeling good emotions when someone likes you

Title	Models by Mark Manson - What is Neediness?
Author	ArielBro
Upvotes	65
Comments	22
Date	April 7, 2018 1:28 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/8ai13q/models_by_mark_manson_what_is_neediness/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/models-by-mark-manson-what-is-neediness.1444408 https://theredarchive.com/post/1444408

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