One is either victim, OR they are not. There is no middle ground.

Gravel_Roads · 2024-10-23T11:17:48+00:00

Why the need to reclassify words that already work just fine?

"Victim" just means you had something done to you. That's it. There's no need to "identify" into it, no moral or emotional stance necessary. Even calm, forgiving people can be victims if something is done to them.

Prey is victim to a predator. Grass falls victim to the cow that eats it. If you steal from a thief, that thief is still a victim of theft even if they also victimize others.

Your take is unreasonable because you don't understand what the word "victim" means. It's just a word used to indicate WHO something was done to. HOW that person reacts to the thing done to them says a lot about their character, but you don't suddenly STOP being a victim of a crime just by having a good attitude.

krackedy · 2024-10-23T11:08:52+00:00

You can do whatever work on yourself you want, you can even choose not to "identify" as a victim, but it doesn't change the past.

Being a victim doesn't have to mean you react emotionally, dwell on it, are traumatized, or anything else. It just means that someone abused you.

Personally I find the whole "I no longer identify as a victim" stuff kind of dumb, like a cheap cringe self help book or something.

It's okay to move on and still realize you are, in fact, a victim.

nightsofthesunkissed · 2024-10-23T11:14:19+00:00

I think that you kind of need to differentiate between someone having been the victim of something, and victimhood status.

I do think there is middle ground.

I think someone can acknowledge that they have been a victim of any crime, and they always will be, because it's still a thing that happened to them, but they can also reject a victimhood status for themselves when they feel they have moved on from the trauma of it.

At what point is a criminal no longer a criminal? Once they have served their time? Apologised to their victim/s?
I think most people would say "they were a criminal" after they have seen justice. So perhaps in the same way, the victim no longer is a victim once they feel healed and the time is right for them.

AutoModerator · 2024-10-23T11:03:04+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2024-10-23T11:54:13+00:00

I think the problem here is an issue of perception

One can be "victimised" e.g. someone who had something bad done or happen to them.

And one can have "victimhood" as in someone who strongly acts and perceives themselves as someone who was strongly traumatized by something bad.

We have made it so that "victim" goes without agency. Which is why some people prefer the word "survivor" which denotes that they had the agency and the work to help themselves move past the trauma of victimhood. But I would argue that being able to cope or have agency to help survive the trauma does not make anyone less of a victim.

A victim of child abuse will always be, objectively speaking, shaped by and hurt by the trauma of abuse.

That does not mean that they carry their victimhood with them forever, unable to move past the trauma. They could be heavily impacted by it, while also still living a well adjusted, healthy and normal life. But whether you call them victim or survivor, it still happened, it still shaped their experiences etc.

I can say, for example, that I may have been a "victim" of racism. Because I am brown, have an accent, and am an immigrant. I have experienced many instances of racism. Some big. Some small. Mostly minor.

However I can acknowledge that those things happen to me, without carrying "victimhood" with me all the time. I don't accuse all white people of being racist. Im not going to make the case that all people descended from colonialist countries feel bad about it. And frankly some "white" people were oppressed and not the oppressors (like say the Irish). I don't carry my "victim card" or have the "oppression Olympics". And in fact some of that racism was inflicted by not white people such as other groups of Asians.

But I'm also not going to deny that certain incidents, certainly targeted at me because of my race, didn't happen.

And frankly I'm not going to deny being a tiniest not racist myself. Because well, everyone is to a certain extent.

Makuta_Servaela · 2024-10-23T12:03:23+00:00

No, one can be a victim in some aspects and not in others.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2024-10-23T12:41:18+00:00

You never stop being a victim. Nothing can erase what happens to you.

It’s like how someone who’s convicted of a crime will always be a criminal even after they serve their time and the person/people they did wrong forgives them. It’s on their record for the rest of their life and they will always be seen as a criminal. Similarly if you had something done to you, you will always be seen as a victim even if you forgive the person/people and move on. You can’t erase what was done to you or someone else.

Sharp_Potential3660 · 2024-10-23T12:45:55+00:00

One is either a victim; or they are not. Internal Dialogue trumps all.

If I punch an old lady in the face, it’s not her mindset that makes her a victim. I did that.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-10-23T13:07:29+00:00

Yeah my foster just needed to change her internal dialogue instead of dwelling on the internal drama of watching her bio-mom almost overdose on the street. She just needed to no longer identify that childhood trauma and it went away.

So good men of apparent privileged upbringings can lecture people here. Everyone’s fixed now.

TheRedPillRipper · 2024-10-23T14:04:17+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2024-10-23T15:19:30+00:00

Is victimhood a feeling? I'm pretty sure you're a victim if you've been on the recieving end of a crime.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2024-10-24T19:47:30+00:00

Reasonable enough. For me the stand of a victim lies in the inaction and the wait of an external force to move things for them. When you decide to take actions you are no longer a victim

AutoModerator · 2024-10-23T11:03:05+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a Debate. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to debate in good faith may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to Debate OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

berichorbeburied · 2024-10-23T11:15:33+00:00

This is very philosophical

2 ways to be perceived as a victim

when you VIEW/THINK everything/something is happening to you and you are helpless to stop it or its outside of your control
when something HAPPENS to you that comes from outside of yourself (environment/entity/etc) that creates dysfunction/harm/problems within you or within your life

So for example if a man stabs another man

The man who was stabbed is literally a victim

But if the man who was stabbed lives life thinking of all the things he could’ve did not to be stabbed and he tries to prevent himself from being stabbed again or proactively arming himself to be prepared to subdue an assailant or etc

Then he’s no longer THINKING like a victim

Title	One is either victim, OR they are not. There is no middle ground.
Author	TheRedPillRipper
Upvotes	0
Comments	66
Date	October 23, 2024 11:03 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ga7ro3/one_is_either_victim_or_they_are_not_there_is_no/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/one-is-either-victim-or-they-are-not-there-is-no.1533018 https://theredarchive.com/post/1533018

Comments