A new subreddit in the milieu - r/RadMensLib

Professional-You2968 · 2024-10-20T05:05:04+00:00

Yet another one starting from a conspiracy theory, this is an attempt at polluting the discourse with feminist propaganda.

ParanoidAgnostic · 2024-10-20T00:42:38+00:00

This new sub has a goal of elucidating a theory of men's oppression under patriarchy using, and from there, men's liberation from it.

Maybe start by finding a better term than "patriarchy." While the way you intended it was not "women are oppressed and it's men's fault," it is unfortunately strongly implied by the word and how it has been used by others.

You can see how the responses you got here focused on that and how it derailed any discussion you were hoping to have.

The problem is not so much that "patriarchy" is inaccurate. Men certainly have more pressure to be the one officially in charge. The problem is that the term hyperfocuses on a small part of the problem. :"Gynocentrism" would be equally accurate. Women's safety and comfort are a core focus in "patriarchal" society. Of course, people concerned with women's issues would be rightly pissed off at all discussion of those issues being through the lens of how women are prioritised over men.

I don't know what a good term would be but one which singles out one gender in its root (patri/gyno) is absolutely not the right one.

MelissaMiranti · 2024-10-19T23:52:35+00:00

This new sub has a goal of elucidating a theory of men's oppression under patriarchy

Okay so it's bullshit? Good to know.

AigisxLabrys · 2024-10-20T00:57:38+00:00

So Feminism Lite?

Also you’re an anarchist? Cool.

Infestedwithnormies · 2024-10-19T23:55:57+00:00

Western democracies are not patriarchies. You are tilting at windmills.

AshenCursedOne · 2024-10-20T05:55:51+00:00

While everyone is, rightfully, having a go at you for using a garbage term like "patriarchy", and your refusal to acknowledge it's useless for anything outside of gendered hate. I have another criticism.

I'm an anarchist and I intend to keep moderation and rules light handed and more focused on suggestions than on bans.

Makings of a hate echo chamber. The beauty of non moderation is that it lets anyone turn any discussion into their own personal sewer for whatever their brain shits out.

Also in general, reading the post, what you want, and seem to admire the idea of, is feminism but for men. And that's a recipe for the same hateful, finger pointing, anti intellectual, and feelings based ideology that feminism is.

Feminism was started as a way for wealthy white socialites to use their abundand free time and resources to get even more privilege than they already had. Ofc they needed big numbers to get those privileges, so they branded it for working class women too. Post industrialization women became a valuable labour force, women like all workers, had the political power to fight for political and property privileges that. Women's liberation would've happened with or without feminism, social attitudes at the time, and women being valuable workers and consumers under capitalism, that'd force the oligarchs to placate them and grant them social and economic privileges equal to the male worker. But that would not benefit the rich, non working, bored socialites. So they took the worker's rights attitude, and rebranded it for women specifically, so they can get privileges that'd benefit them specifically. As a result, worker's rights got completely absorbed by feminism, great for the female worker, and the male worker got some occasional side effect benefit too, so he was also placated. But the real winners were the oligarchs, and that includes the rich white women, they managed to get priority under law, without equal responsibility under law, and also shift the worker's rights movement from looking at them, instead they got men and women to blame men in their lives and communities. Feminism was a brilliant move by wives of oligarchs to grab some power and point worker's anger away from the rich, and point it at some boogeyman, the Patriarchy TM, an endlessly fluid and adaptable concept that means everything and nothing, but at it's core, it blames Bob from accounting, and Joe the plumber, for all of society's ills, instead of blaming the ultra rich.

ffynidwydd · 2024-10-20T08:58:05+00:00

But term "patriarchy" is already devalue men's liberation bc places blame of misandry on men, i.e. the term is victimblaiming

2024-10-20T13:28:12+00:00

Any men's movement that works under a feminist conception of patriarchy theory can never be radical because if women are the "real victims", then they decide how much liberation of men is acceptable.

Hence a men's movement needs to work with a theory that identifies men as oppressed and "real victims", not women. That gives you complete freedom over men's liberation and you can be as radical as you want.

Since the language of the word "patriarchy" is itself tied to feminist conception of patriarchy, any men's movement which identifies patriarchy as the ultimate bad guy is bound to fail.

SarcasticallyCandour · 2024-10-20T05:32:05+00:00

It isnt just patriarchy that harms men and boys.

For example, you mentioned education. Education is a matriarchy imo. Boys are under control of female teachers (who are often feminists). Female teachers control both teaching methods, representation and they control grades of the children. Boys are therefore being regulated by female influences.

If a boy doesn't do his homework because he didnt know how, and a girl does the same, theres a high risk the boy is punished but girl isnt.
If a boy talks out of turn hes disruptive, if a girl does it she's confident in her skills.
If a boy lags in school hes put on meds, while girls are given special programmes and mentorship.
When girls dont dont study engineering or physics its a problem and female teachers set up worshops using public funds and exclude boys. When boys dont study biology, teaching, healthsci female teachers see it as totally not a problem.
When boys lag its classed as boys "losing male privilege " and a good thing. While girls lagging is a gap that needs closing.

Boys are broken girls at best.

This is clearly power dynamics used to harm boys within a female centric education system. If we look at prejudices and barriers, in DV they are feminist constructed, not patriarchy. Then these prejudices are spread within female dominated institutions like Social Science Depts, while police are influenced and trained into these narratives like the Duluth Model etc.- If we look at HR which is filled with white women, they use their overrepresentation to do "female only promotions " or workshops, extra training excluding men etc.

My question is why are you limiting the RML sub to patriarchy only when theres so much that isnt patriarchy but? It must be the full spectrum or its not helpful. It looks like its only tiptoeing around feminists.

SarcasticallyCandour · 2024-10-20T05:32:24+00:00

It isnt just patriarchy that harms men and boys.

For example, you mentioned education. Education is a matriarchy imo. Boys are under control of female teachers (who are often feminists). Female teachers control both teaching methods, representation and they control grades of the children. Boys are therefore being regulated by female influences.

If a boy doesn't do his homework because he didnt know how, and a girl does the same, theres a high risk the boy is punished but girl isnt.
If a boy talks out of turn hes disruptive, if a girl does it she's confident in her skills.
If a boy lags in school hes put on meds, while girls are given special programmes and mentorship.
When girls dont dont study engineering or physics its a problem and female teachers set up worshops using public funds and exclude boys. When boys dont study biology, teaching, healthsci female teachers see it as totally not a problem.
When boys lag its classed as boys "losing male privilege " and a good thing. While girls lagging is a gap that needs closing.

Boys are broken girls at best.

This is clearly power dynamics used to harm boys within a female centric education system. If we look at prejudices and barriers, in DV they are feminist constructed, not patriarchy. Then these prejudices are spread within female dominated institutions like Social Science Depts, while police are influenced and trained into these narratives like the Duluth Model etc.- If we look at HR which is filled with white women, they use their overrepresentation to do "female only promotions " or workshops, extra training excluding men etc.

My question is why are you limiting the RML sub to patriarchy only when theres so much that isnt patriarchy but? It must be the full spectrum or its not helpful. It looks like its only tiptoeing around feminists.

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