Thanks Guardian for Picking this Comment

mean0dean0 · 2014-05-18T18:09:53+00:00

While this comment is certainly necessary, I don't think the major emphasis on domestic violence should be about men feeling "vulnerable" enough to speak out, or men being "victims" of violence. What should be at the forefront of both genders in the discussion of DV is perpetration, not victimization; we should be focusing NOT on what Jay-Z did or didn't do to deserve being beaten up by Solange; we should be focusing on why Solange felt that the best way of getting across her obvious emotional outburst was physical violence.

If we want to have a serious and educated discussion about interpersonal and domestic violence, we have to take that discussion OUT of the perpetual cycle of victimology, of only looking with pathos (our feelz) at victims, rather than rationally dissecting the actions and motivations of perpetrators, regardless of gender. Not a single commenter, even here in /MR, has been interested in finding out why Solange is acting crazy; the fact of her craziness just seems to sit there, largely unexamined. Until we (women included!) can hold women responsible as adult individuals for their own bad behavior, the discussion won't continue.

Even the woman in the linked comment is unwilling to admit that she was acting in a threatening manner towards her partner; she calls her memory "subjective" and her behavior as "moaning/nagging," but her final throwaway comment that just because "a guy is stronger and more capable... doesn't mean he's immune to being traumatised by her." Not "just because MY guy is strong doesn't mean I can't traumatise him," just a throwaway hypothetical. I know it seems like splitting hairs, but part of taking responsibility for your own bad behavior is learning to use "I" statements, to literally say "I did this, I caused this bad result, I fucked up," etc. As much as people like to claim that women are better communicators, this sort of agency-avoidance language only pushes the problem further away by allowing bad people to take an out by saying "hey, I'm not like that," or "not all women are like that". While not all women are like any one thing, all women in western society have the institutionally recognized social privilege to get away with more violent behaviors than men. That's not just socially programmed hypoagency, that's privilege; the privilege not to go to jail and not to be socially outcast for being an abusive asshole. Feminists, the way they often proclaim, should check their fucking privilege.

Whisper · 2014-05-19T00:34:20+00:00

Physical size and strength is irrelevant to partner abuse situations because one of its distinguishing characteristics is that the victim doesn't fight back.

Saying that a woman can't abuse a man because he's strong enough to stop her is like saying a cattle rancher can't abuse a bull because it's huge and can stomp him flat.

AlphaWookie · 2014-05-18T22:11:25+00:00

Now the guardian needs to dismiss Ellen and that will be a step in the right direction.

heimdahl81 · 2014-05-18T18:39:24+00:00

I'm very much like that guy. My first girlfriend hit me a lot and I stayed with her due to low self esteem and being a teenager "in love". For years after, I would flinch any time a girl raised her hand above shoulder level. Even today, I still occasionally will start to react and have to force myself to relax.

Ojisan1 · 2014-05-18T23:32:52+00:00

Physical strength and gender are meaningless when it comes to childhood trauma. People don't get that - they see a big dude and forget that he was once just as vulnerable a human being as anyone is when we are children. And being big later doesn't fix those mental wounds that get inflicted when you're a child.

cewubaaca · 2014-05-19T09:30:22+00:00

A copy of my letter to the Observer:

Dear Sir/Madam

I wish to complain in the strongest possible terms about the comment piece published on your website under the by-line of Barbara Ellen on the 18th May 2014.

Whilst she sprinkled her piece with caveats that to this reader appeared insincere, the thrust of her argument was that female domestic violence was a lesser offence to male domestic violence.

This will provide validation to any woman conducting domestic violence against a male partner and has the capacity to do real harm in the real world. I recognise that the Observer is financially starved, but provocative opinion pieces such as this do great damage to the reputation of your paper, and so they should.

I have little doubt that you have received other complaints about this opinion piece and I would like to add my voice to any others you might have heard calling for this contributor to be removed from the Observer staff. This is not the first time that Ms. Ellen has written pieces that seek to justify and apologise for abusive behaviour, indeed the comments section below the published article linked to a piece from 2009 in which she sought to argue that the sexual abuse of a 15 year old minor by a teacher was excusable.

Attitudes such as hers are rightly regarded as abhorrent when expressed in any context outside the confines of feminism. When given the airing that you provide to them as a publication you do great harm to the cause of gender equality by providing ammunition to those who decry feminists as ‘man haters’.

There were calls for Richard Scudamore to lose his job over the revelation of his attitudes to the opposite gender in your sister paper. I would ask the management at the Observer to have the courage of their convictions and show the wider public that offensive sexist views published in your paper attract the same censure that you demand of others.

To assist you in your consideration of this complaint I would like to quote Guardian Community Standard Number five;

“5. We will not tolerate racism, sexism, homophobia or other forms of hate-speech, or contributions that could be interpreted as such. We recognise the difference between criticising a particular government, organisation, community or belief and attacking people on the basis of their race, religion, sex, gender, sexual orientation, disability or age.”

There can be no speech more hateful than to excuse or justify the domestic abuse engaged in by one partner against another, whatever obviously insincere caveats are used to qualify the hate speech.

Furthermore your columnist sought to make light of her own engagement in physical assault, compounded by the aggravating factor of drunkenness. The term she used was ‘slap happy’. This is obviously behaviour that brings your organisation into disrepute and employment/freelance contracts typically have clauses that provide for disciplinary action in such circumstances. I would ask that you use them.

For my part I shall raise awareness of the attitudes that your paper considers fit for publication. I shall not visit your website without using advertising blocking software and nor shall I purchase either the Guardian or the Observer until I have some confidence that apologies for domestic violence are unacceptable to the management.

Yours faithfully

blueoak9 · 2014-05-18T23:01:40+00:00

The context of this comment is important - it is response to a house writer at a major fashionable left media organ, If commenters there are saying things like this and being noticed, that means the message is really getting out into the mainstream.

anonagent · 2014-05-19T03:41:19+00:00

I'm consistently amazed at how oblivious of our humanity women are...

kungfukai · 2014-05-19T08:21:07+00:00

Physical scars can heal.

Emotional scars, most of the time, don't.

aussietoads · 2014-05-19T00:45:45+00:00

Many times I hear people dismiss the idea that a man can be hurt by a woman because he is so much bigger and stronger.

What many women in particular seem to be unaware of, that many men already know, is that often times, in a fight between two men for example, it is not the size of the man in the fight, but the size of the fight in the man, that determines the outcome.

Mr5306 · 2014-05-19T02:42:55+00:00

Does not make the Guardian any less of a shitty bias newspaper.

MattBD · 2014-05-19T00:04:25+00:00

My mom is physically stronger than my dad.

vaselinepete · 2014-05-19T09:25:07+00:00

Barbara Ellen, the author of this piece, has got form for belittling the experiences of men and essentially advocating for violence against men.

I have made a complaint about this article to the Press Complaints Commission. If you want to as well, head here: http://www.pcc.org.uk/

The Guardian loves attacking other journalists for saying things it doesn't agree with. I want them to get a taste of their own medicine.

poiurewq · 2014-05-19T09:47:22+00:00

refreshing.

2014-05-19T15:21:23+00:00

Yes Yes yes. I out weigh my ex by 40 lbs and I'm far stronger. However, I am terrified of her! I am terrified because she is not afraid to hurt our children in order to hurt me.

2014-05-19T16:16:56+00:00

I love how she has to say "although privileged" as a disclaimer for the shitheads who cant understand that not every man is privileged.

Title	Thanks Guardian for Picking this Comment
Author	AsteRISQUE
Upvotes	1218
Comments	33
Date	May 18, 2014 4:55 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/25vefp/thanks-guardian-for-picking-this-comment/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/thanks-guardian-for-picking-this-comment.1617292 https://theredarchive.com/post/1617292

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