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Main Event Infinity Loop

Reddit View
February 22, 2018

Need some real talk here. I've had more Main Events than I can remember. I thought somewhere between 3-5 but I think it’s probably more than that. These events are exactly as described in /u/Rian_Stone’s recent post. Namely, “if she’s throwing out snot bubbles and you’re largely indifferent”. I am indifferent. I throw in some comfort at these times like a hug or "it will be okay, I love you" or something. She thinks I resent her. It's indifference.
After witnessing (and feeling like a mere observer of) countless hysterical breakdowns, I have to wonder if I'm dealing with something exceptional here or if this is normal. Are your wives constantly melting down (in extreme ways), or is my wife unhealthily invested in the outcome of our relationship? I get the oldest teenager in the house thing, but my gut is telling me I'm dealing with an emotionally traumatized woman who can't deal with real life.
I have to wonder, because of her lack of ability to function in other aspects of real life: making friends, accepting flaws in people, dealing with normal shit that happens at a job, etc. I'm not going to sugar-coat my role in this, I've been a pretty big dick in a lot of ways over the past couple years. Said some shit I could have kept to myself, and run really high dread. I encourage her doubt I suppose, but she's always been like this. I just happened to stop catering to it and I'm fanning the flames with indifference. I don't really see an option right now that doesn't involve pandering/babying.
edit: My wife knows I messed around with other women, but this has been going on since before then.

Post Information
Title Main Event Infinity Loop
Author donedreadpirate
Upvotes 6
Comments 76
Date 22 February 2018 07:53 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
dread game

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret8 points9 points  (12 children) | Copy

Some of this is for starting guys so that don't think there's a whole new subset of behaviors. There isn't.

First and foremost we must realize that AWALT is a spectrum. All women can exist on this spectrum at any time. But they will have a default position to one area or the other...doesn't mean they can't move along it at any point. It's influenced by a woman's past and upbringing. Some are just firmly entrenched in their feminist ideals. YET can pretend or LARP feminine ideals. Still their actions betray them.

A woman can desire (this desire is not necessarily sexual in nature) you but not value you.

My shrew is a complete failure at being a woman. I can't teach her and have no desire to. She can't make friends and really has no desire to. She melts down often...anger issues from her past. namely from her mom (whom she has an unhealthy attachment to) who is a 60yo CC rider, and divorced her husband after 10years of marriage because her friends were doing it. Oh...her mom got pregnant in college and married her beta provider (the father), who happens to be a highly functioning alcoholic.

We know that the main event is really her last ditch effort to bring you to heel, and it either ends in divorce or complete submission to your frame. If she is volatile like mine it's just another wind blowing....especially if she keeps it on loop. I don't have my ducks in a row yet to show her the door. Somethings just take time to get in place, sounds like that's where you are at.

the REAL main event is either her ultimatum and you calling it, or the Fuck Me or Fuck You speech that you give her.

The go plan is the same as the stay plan. Whether you've been a ass or not she's bucking against your frame and it's your decision to bring it to heel or let it continue until you can back up your words with action.

But no it's not new or unique. Mine refuses. I already see and have heard it. Just a matter of time right now.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

who was it that had the perfect analogy to describe AWALT, using getting struck by lightning. Something like

You're likely to be struck by lighting when it's raining - false

If you're struck by lightning, it's likely when it's raining - true.

[–]Reach180Red Beret4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That's the one

A real gem!

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

He also had the good comment about the org chart in OYS.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Damn. I was sure it was a lot Longer Go than that.


[–]ReddJiveRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

oh shit. I remember that but no idea.

thanks. now that's going to bug me.

[–]johneyapocalypse2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It was Reach180 he's an insightful dude.

Edit: Err, who posted like 2 minutes before me.

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is so true. I had the Main event finally a few months ago. I’ve been getting in better shape the past few years, dressing better, getting out and NGAF, and quit DEER. A mix of shit and comfort tests over the years finally exploded into an “I’m leaving!” I wanted to both strangle her and hug her and promise her I’d change back but I held frame knowing that I now like the life I’m living and won’t let her run mine anymore. I calmly said “then go, it’s your choice. You’re either helping my team or fighting against it, and I won’t be dragged down by a teammate that fights against us”. I left to go to the gym and didn’t know if I’d come home to an empty house. What I did come home to was a clean house. She’s a slob, but cleaned up, lit some candles, put the kids to bed and she apologized for everything. It hasn’t been perfect but she now follows my lead and never threatened to leave since. House has been clean and it’s overall peaceful. And sex went from 1-2 per week to almost daily. When the real do or die moment comes you’ll know it.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe. She keeps things clean for me, cooks dinner every night, handles shit I ask her to, and sex is on demand. It's not that for me, it's moreso the emotional instability from chronic lack of self. The need for us to be one person. Vampiric.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Definitely a lot of similarities. Appreciate the thoughtful response man.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Damn... Sounds similar to my wife. When you replied to my post, you were really there to some degree with your wife weren't you?

For me SO melts down every 25-27 days, blows snot bubble, throws out nuclear shit tests (telling me to leave and never come back, threatening to leave or find someone else, threatens divorce, anything she can do to break me down, etc.), and gets pissed at my indifference. I wouldn't call them main events, they are just her empty threats to try to get me back in line.

Like you said, she goes through the spectrum, but nothing improves which I attribute to my lack of experience and knowledge with TRP as I am only two months in still reading core materials.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

you were really there to some degree with your wife weren't you?

It’s what we kept telling you guys. We’ve been there. Done that.

We aren’t snowflakes. Do you see now? Behavior is all the same. It’s the circumstances that are different.

Now as I have said there are some women firmly entrenched in their beliefs. Upbringing, experience, whatever. You could classify them as Omega in that they are unable to change.

Betas can change. They are making the choice, no matter how conscious that choice is, they are making it.

Not all of these things are true main events. The main event is your decision. She could very well make another emotional outburst of “I’m leaving”. Then it clicks into place. You’ve had it.

This shrew that doesn’t fuck. Shower regularly. Act like a woman. Demands everything and does nothing to make life easier.....

She’s going to toe the line or else.

Personally I think it’s when a man truly finds what sort of Alpah he is. Where he sits’ on that spectrum. It’s your first authentic decision. Up until now you are reading here. Studying what we and others tell you and implementing variations of the what everyone says to do.

If you have a Main event, and not everyone does, is the true test of your frame because you can’t take a moment to decide. To study the ramifications and alternative courses of actions.

Among everything else leaders, and men, are decisive.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

You can't unsave a ho, Captain.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah, I guess was Captain Save-a-ho at the start of the relationship and now that I'm not I'm just dealing with a ho.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not necessarily a ho, but it's up to you whether you continue to placate a feels cycle you are all too familiar with.

Dreading a broken woman just makes her cry sooner, not appreciate you more.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have decided not to. Or at the very least to do the bare minimum. Will see where it goes, thanks.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

My understanding is that there isn’t such a thing as recurring Main Events; that’s known as status quo friend.

Remember, it’s your poor leadership that brought you to this point. She’s playing the part you gave her. You haven’t communicated the script change clearly to her or you haven’t done so in a way that demonstrates frame.
I was in a similar situation w/ my STBX. I sprinkled some Alpha crumbs around my Captain Save A Ho program and when it came time to swap the script, it was similar to what you described. I signed up the wrong first officer in the first place. I ha e her a script that put me in her frame. I wasn’t able to demonstrate leadership. She felt no reason to change to the new script. I planned for divorce for a year to et my house in order and then left. She demonstrated no value (chronic fat victim), declined my offer for her to get on the new bus (main event city), so I pulled the cord. I’m into almost two years of divorce process and the end is barely in sight. I spend my time w/ my nee HB8 GF that is 15yrs younger than I am and it turns out that when you start with the right FO, this shit works. You can’t the. A garbage scow into a speedboat.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I own the fact that my poor leadership got me to this point. I can't undo 10 years of faggotry. Glad things have worked out for you. The thing about the script change she can't grasp is that it doesn't mean things will go back to how they were. It's as if she thinks her behaving more feminine, submissive, and like a woman worth keeping will make me act like I used to; the way she misses. Or something, I don't really know.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don’t overthink it. She isn’t on board until she’s on board.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (25 children) | Copy

Need some real talk here

I went through something similar. I called them "rolling main events". Rian called me out, said I was sprinkling alpha on it. Turns out, he was right.

The fact was, I just could not let go of Marriage 1.0, the blue pill-disney dream. CAD called me out that I could not let go of the beta desire to have her admit she had wronged me and make it up to me.

For 2 years of hard work on me, I still had work to do.

I reworked the side bar with double intensity and finally knew enough to better understand all that I had missed the first time.

As my frame grew, the day came that she threatened divorce. With a completely calm immediate answer I said, "yeah, that's probably a good idea. I think I have a lot of resentment.."

Two full days later, she walks by me and says in a matter of fact voice, "I don't want a divorce." She could have been talking about the weather. Then she went about doing some housework. I have never, and she has never mentioned it again. She had flipped her switch.(after I finally flipped mine)

I did not do it, she did. She did because I was finally believable because I had ditched the blue pill dream, the beta desire for revenge, and was ready to go. She did it because I was no longer wanting her to do it. My main concern had become me.

I don't know if this helps you. Sometimes it's that last 3 feet of digging before you hit gold. Either way the plan is the same.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (24 children) | Copy

Awesome, thanks for sharing. I don't know. I think I am hanging onto the idea of a no-matter-what nuclear family "for the kids". Possibly hanging onto the idea that I can "fix" her negative feedback loop. Also maybe she's right and there is some resentment for the shit she has thrown my way during my MAP, namely dragging our business all around the neighborhood, my family, trying to turn people close to me against me "because she needed support" while I put my head down, worked and STFU. Maybe for her dependence on me to give her happiness in life. I'm just throwing shit out to see if it sticks at this point, trying to view my situation as an outsider. If I knew, I wouldn't have even posted this.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy

You understand that until you are actually ready to burn it all down , kids or not , you’re not credible?

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

It's probably the biggest thing holding me back. Achilles. I say to myself I am, and I can actually envision it, but I really don't want to.

[–]PersaeusRed Beret1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Like FT said ; that’s the switch flip that really registered....actually looking forward to divorce

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

flip that really registered....actually looking forward to divorce

Like just sitting there, catching myself with a little grin, and calm,...and I am not a calm guy, I started sleeping better at night. Looking forward to it and amazed at the sensation, Better than a two girl HJ BJ kind of sensation.....

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yea started thinking bout where Id live and whether id be allowed to attend soccer games on her day.

And I was more than ok

[–]PersaeusRed Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I chuckled at this because I already picked out my new neighborhood. DL13 - pick out new curtains

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Picked out a nice condo with garage and storage. Wrote out my plan for 1 day move.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

i imagine wed nights for kids. mon tues for gym and chillax. thurs for plates

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have looked at places and prepared myself for it but when it comes down to the decision I always look for a way to make it work.

[–]drty_prRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I say to myself I am, and I can actually envision it, but I really don't want to

She knows this. Guaranteed.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy

I think I am hanging onto the idea of a no-matter-what nuclear family "for the kids".

I did this in marriage #1. Don't recommend it for you, for your kids, or for her. Misery for everyone. You have read the whole shitty story as Over60_stupid_loner. You could be that guy. Do you really want that.... for you, your kids? Back to NMMNG to sort out your self sacrifice gene.

Possibly hanging onto the idea that I can "fix" her negative feedback loop. Then resenting her....

Trying to fix someone else is a prescription for hell on earth, for you. You don't have the right to change anyone, only yourself. She has to change herself and own her own feelings. Quit that crazy shit now.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have read his story and saw myself in it entirely. And, no, not really where I want to go. Not sure about the fix thing. Maybe it's hoping that she will fix it herself. I'm not doing a whole lot about it besides sticking around.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

think I am hanging onto the idea of a no-matter-what nuclear family "for the kids.

i used to say this. worse even, i told self if i left, kids wud suffer.


they would be fine. that was me avoiding and not surrendering to what i truly felt

truthfully, i enjoy living with em. i like my house. i enjoy other women anyway.

how does it end? no clue, cant live in future even if you try.

way i see it, be powerful and life sorts itself to your frame

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

i told self if i left, kids wud suffer.

I remember when you wrote this comment:

Nothing makes me laugh (or cry) like some retarded moralist blooper saying "just divorce, you are being selfish" Ok right, so my son gets medicated for typical elementary school boy behavior, my daughter has no man to look up to except for the future parade of losers their mother brings around. And I am lucky to see them here and there while footing the bill for the sinking ship. Ok, sure, good plan.

At that time I agreed. Seems we both moved to:

silly. they would be fine. that was me avoiding and not surrendering to what i truly felt

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Neither of those things would happen if I live a mile away. I was deluding myself. I can see that while I accepted I wasnt thrilled with my marriage, I put self in the powerless situatuon to avoid painful change. Eventually I got to point where I wanted peace and flatly said we should just split and things will be fine. I told her I wouldn't fight on any major points and that Id be very fair and reasonable to make everything seamless. The marriage went from her releuctant but obedient frame to willing servant

I accepted that I may live apart and in a less palatial home. And that it was perhaps not what I wanted but still ok. That desire on my part needed to be surrendered. She sensed that she still had some power and women dont want nor can handle power in sexual relationships

If this strikes a chord with anyone than read The Pathway to Surrender. This little supermarket self help trash somehow changed my life. I no longer have the ability to get angry with myself. I feel infinite personal power. Its beyond silly to even write this but the booka has a couple tricks that can materially change the way you deak with your own thoughts and feelings

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. The surge of joy and relief I had when I finally "Surrendered" to the idea of divorce.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

This is where I'm at. Haven't accepted they'd be fine. Although seeing how well they handled my father's death I did think to myself... Wow they are tough little shits. That gives me hope.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Highly likely its your attachment to some idea of living together that makes you conjure up the fallacy that you cant leave.

Often when we say i can't it really means * i wont

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah. I tell myself I can and that it would be all good but then when I actually go there mentally I struggle to reconcile. Might read that book you suggested.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

when I actually go there mentally I struggle to reconcile.

First, you aren't wrong if you would rather stay. Just recognize the trade offs. Decide what you really want. Do that. Real simple, real hard.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Giving her another chance. Discovered I was harboring some resentment towards her. Your comment made me wonder and man_in_the_world called me on it so I let myself go there. Wife had called me on it too. Turns out, yeah, I resented her behavior since I have been changing into the man I want to be. Turns out, she didn't feel she had a place in that vision. I have tried a few times and there are two possibilities:

  1. My visions were not actionable for her
  2. She's full of shit

So now it's do or die. If this doesn't work I'm just fooling myself and I'm leaving.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Real talk

quit giving a fuck


But honestly, you are most likely feeling the effects of her rationalizing duty vs attraction to you and how it relates to the ultimatums you have thrown out from your verbal diahrea episodes.

It’s not just enough to take action and live your life, it’s very important to time statements, desires and/or ultimatums and abiding by them

[–]drty_prRed Beret1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

What are the odds that she loves this crazy shit? Crying about losing the family to whoever will listen gives her more feels than the DDP cock ever could? That she doesn't have real friends becuase women know she ain't friend material? That when she is in the heat of a feux-main event, the negativity she is overtly displaying brings her more pleasure than being your little subservient wife ever could?

The reason I ask is because I grew up around a lot of disfunction. Not in my own family, my parents fuckin rock, but all around me. One thing that I've noticed in relationships like you describe is that cluster B women live for this shit.

You've always known her to be that women. It stands to reason she always will be that women.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Just re-read this, it's been a while.

she will try to isolate you from your peers and family.


She might do this by accusing you of something extremely unsavoury to win the sympathies of your natural allies.

Check (she didn't have to try hard).

Once you are estranged from your emotional support, she will target you with more focus, gaslighting you with repetitive cycles of scorn and forgiveness

Ah, it seems I find myself here. I see some trends that line up in this article and some that do not. Recently I met a girl at work who was into me. Kept inviting me to her house for drinks. I could tell she was Cluster B, 100% Psycho and didn't want to shit where I eat but I'll admit I fantasized about it. She was cute. I wonder what I would think of my wife if I met her for the first time at work tomorrow....

[–]drty_prRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

If I met my wife at work tomorrow, she never would know the the shitty man I could allow myself to become when things got tough. But, as the adage goes, if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Very, very good questions. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Assuming mental health, does she have a narrative, a come to jesus speech? Or is she just flailing about with no idea what to do to keep her man?

If thats the case, either kill the puppy or nurse it back to health, don't make it sit there and sufffer, thats just cruel.

If it's simply she never had to develop adult impulse control, a heavier hand may be required. harsh patriarch. If it's chemical, maybe needs some SSRI while she sorts out CBT (hope not, that shit is a vagina dryer)

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Not really sure man. I'm probably letting it sit there and suffer to some extent. No narrative besides she doesn't want to lose me and just wants us to be together forever and shit. I dont know what you mean by a come to Jesus speech though, like how would that look? Guess I am at a loss for how to nurse it back to health too. Not like I haven't tried shit over the years. Not into the sunk cost fallacy either.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

I guess there really is only a few snippets for that term in everything.

People think in narratives, we call them frame, some people call them lenses. When we talk in here, it's centered around sexual strategy, so everything is filtered through Rule 0.

Problem with a main event, is you've just shattered a womans frame. She was angry, resentful, you are middling at best, and sexually frustrating.

All of a sudden high value man comes in, makes her tingle, and is basically leaving. Think of that sudden emotion when a guy walks over and puts his hand on the small of your womans back, and she giggles back. That viceral feeling that every ounce of security in your relationship is gone, shattered. Your initial instinct is to punch that man in the face, a lot.

And imagine the difference if she looks at you, sees this, and lets you know "This is my dad" and his hand was just reaching for soemthing beside her back. Instant relief. you can now frame your relationship around that narrative. Dad has good relationship with daughter, instead of man swooping on my girl, and I've been lied to for a time.

So for a girl, she thought you were a putz, and she cannot figure out how she was wrong. Know how women will never admit fault? yeah, she can't hide from it now.

So you provide a narrative (don't talk your ass off, but it does need to be there) to guide her out of this.

Mine was something to the effect of: the millitary took my 20s, and I've always lived to serve others. I'm about to live selfish as fuck. Lifes about to get really fucking good. For the second time in my life, I just burned it all to the ground and am about to start over, whats one more thing?; And

I'm a really simple man to keep happy.

So she had a frame to latch onto. Next morning we had a crazy mexican breakfast (she never used to wake up before me, let alone make nice breakfast with the time) sex got better, she allofasudden liked giving blowjobs (and to completion, no less!) even saying I trained her to enjoy it...

And now we vacation all the fucking time, fun adventures, and expensive tastes in dumb shit, mixed with some prudent financial planning and monk mode on occasion to regenerate.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I've had similar conversations. You can lead a horse to water...

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Guess 'shit or get off the pot' works too. Assume you've prepared your plan if she won't stop freaking the fuck out?

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yep, to make the move if I have to. I'm a fucking retard for getting myself into this spot. If only I had found TRP sooner. Oh well! Moving forward.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I wouldnt say bad. Any guy who dropped the dead weight seems to be fucking you get tighter. Models

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Loved it, time to read it again.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

You sure she doesn't have an anxiety disorder of some kind? Reading your comment replies in here I hadn't seen any mention of therapy. You may want to consider finding a CBT/DBT male therapist that specializes in men's issues to ping ideas off of.

I found one who knew RP well and he was the shit. Our sessions would run over all the time, felt more like we were chatting about psychology at a bar, but without the bar and without the alcohol.

I would not advise couples sessions, but you may benefit from having someone to ping ideas off of to help analyze what's going on with her and then get her in therapy if she needs it. It sounds like her fight/flight is just engaged 100% of the time and that feedback loop may not be able to be broken without her regaining a sense of control over her life.

Cause sure as shit, if she wants to relinquish that level of control to you, you will be miserable.

Alternatively, I hadn't seen you mention if she is capable of articulating what kind of future she actually wants. ie... communicating her desires. Is she able to describe fantasies of hers to you? That will be quite a test to her ability to be open with you and whether she trusts your leadership.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

Thanks for the advice, I suspect it. I had her go to CBT and it seemed to go well but didn't last. She's probably read like 20 self improvement books in the past 9 months, which I can appreciate. I went to therapy myself and worked through a lot of shit. Helped me let go of some things I was holding onto. She communicates her desires but they are mostly vague like, all I want is to be with you.

Cause sure as shit, if she wants to relinquish that level of control to you, you will be miserable.


[–]straius0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Yeah, she's not being serious if that's the only level of detail she can articulate. They love to think a conversation can somehow affect change, or reading something will create some kind of insight that'll generate a magic bullet.

My gut tells me that there is digging to do there. Maybe digging she has to do for herself, if she is willing. Because if it's vague like that, it's not a real desire. She's not really in touch with what she wants.

I'm sure you've communicated what you want and like Rian said, it has to be a story she can picture herself within to really feel it.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

It could be that I am not allowing her into that vision yet. When I think about my future now I know where I want to be career wise and with my kids. I know where I want to be socially and with my hobbies. Wife? I don't know right now man, will she even make it a month without an episode? Seems I don't want to throw her a lifesaver to get back on the ship until she shows me she can swim. Why would I want a First Mate who doesn't even know how to swim? I don't know for sure, just speculating. Maybe it's a bad analogy. Trying to evaluate myself as a third party I guess.
Edit: I have laid out my vision before with her in it, not like I haven't given her any opportunities to get back on board, this is just where I'm at now.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

That's probably a big input. In regards to not being able to place her in that vision. Not that she has to end up there, but if you can't articulate a vision she can participate in then it breeds uncertainty and of she's prone to anxiety that will create a persistent cycle of crisis.

Edit: missed your edit. Lol

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Very true. Maybe I am the one who needs to shit or get off the pot.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Yeah but still a valid point. I mean, if she has lost a place in my vision, I could communicate that, but I am trying to give it time. Catch 22 though. I can't see a future with her unless things change but things can't change unless I lay out a future with her. Hmm, something to think about.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

May be a situation where you communicate your vision of an obtainable version of her you can see to give her a better and more specific target to hit, an image of her she can potentially believe in herself because her motive force for change has to be aspirational in nature for it to take. But obviously, dealing with the emotional disruptions of her breakdowns makes that difficult.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah for sure man. I've tried laying it out and I was very supportive about getting her moving. I've tried adapting her role in the vision a few ways and nothing has stuck yet. Mine is the same either way. I can be flexible about a role that works for her, but I'm not going to keep spinning wheels either. Have to think on this some more.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, very true. In the end none of us can control anyone else.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

countless hysterical breakdowns

No this is not a normal reaction to anything MRP talks about much less endorses.

emotionally traumatized woman who can't deal with real life.

We always say marriage counseling is bad but you are describing the exact type of person who needs individual counselilng. Get her help. Are you the Captain or a disinterested bystander?

option right now that doesn't involve pandering/babying.

Comfort? Not a half hearted hug. Why not try "pandering" and "babying" for short intervals? She needs a big strong daddy to fix her boo boos and it sounds a lot less difficult than the path you are on.

wife knows I messed around with other women

So your Dread game is already nuclear. Add in disinterest and that can't be good.

Some guys talk about the 10 second kiss. For you I would try the 40 minute attunement session. Listen to your wife for 30-40 minutes every day. Don't tune out. Tune in. Don't try to solve her problems. Let her emotionally attune to you. This is what women mean by "communication." STFU and listen to her concerns.

If you are at Dread Level nuclear and your wife is having breakdowns and meltdowns then she needs mental help and a husband who is more understanding and kind and needs to build an emotional connection with him. Probably. This is different than most MRP situations. Let me guess that her denying sex is not a problem. It is lackluster sex. Right?

Rollo writes about Children with Dynamite and boy oh boy he is right. These tools are very powerful and we mainly cater to guys in sexless relationships who are powerless. When guys like this come in who have already cheated and know how to pull girls try this it always turns out like this. Rambo alert!

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not exactly. Sex is very enthusiastic. She's submissive and I get what I want. I do tune her out and I hardly comfort. My problem has been moreso that she relies on me to be everything to her. Vampire. I haven't been able to lead her out of it, so I suppose I gave up and just started tuning her out and preparing my exit. Trying to sort that all out. If I'm going to be married, I want to be able to bring my wife somewhere and have her make friends with people and be real. She's judgy and unreceptive to female friendship. It's frustrating because she looks to me to fill all her emotional needs. I did have her go to therapy and it helped a bit until she started trying to diagnose me with attachment disorders.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Are there threats of divorce with all this or just breakdowns? Mine is elsewhere on the spectrum ReddJive describes. She withdraws and becomes anxious. I can't really tell if I grew that behavior in her with 10 years of betadom or she always acted that way. your beta days, did you handle your breakdowns in a similar way?

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

From her, no. From me, I have put it on the table as a potential option if shit doesn't straighten out. Wouldn't have, but she found the papers. In the past, I would have coddled her and legitimized every emotion, talked, offered solutions, name it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Sounds like stoneys/Jacks reference to hamster stuck in the maze then. As he warns...if it doesn't find / isn't lead to a way may gnaw it's way out.

My other question was, what did you do in the past when YOU were upset with the relationship? In my case, I withdrew and became angry/anxious. That's what my wife does now. I'm wondering if there's a connection. I'm wondering if the wife we deal with now was built in part from following the actions we lived by in our blue pill days.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I bottled it up or tried to tapdance. Eventually I got so tired I researched divorce and then found MRP.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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