Q4M Can you explain your ideal culture and the place of men and women in it?

LargeTesticulays · 2017-03-03T16:37:37+00:00

When children first go to school, they should be nurtured and encouraged to find their true talents by the time they are 18 instead of the current system of regurgitating information. From there, the "crappy" jobs in society are taken care of by mature students who are still progressing towards the job they are best at. In adulthood, all humans should be living a meaningful existence full of abundance and comfortable living conditions.

Humans should be re-using as much as possible instead of wasting and recycling. Most products should be sold in re-usable packaging. Electronics companies should be aiming to make the best version of their products as humanly possible the first time around instead of bringing out slightly improved versions every god damn year for maximum profit. etc. etc.

Political decisions should be voted on by the polulation. We should not be voting to put a single person in charge of all the political decisions, that's just insanity...

So with systems like this in place, men and women are truly equal. We choose partners based on how compatible we are as friends and lovers, not because of money and social statuses and security... because those type of worries shouldn't ever need to exist.

currentissuesofme · 2017-03-03T17:48:30+00:00

Do you want a return to pre-emancipation in the West?

Super duper no.

Do you feel there is a way that both men and women can fulfil themselves in life without one gender feeling downtrodden?

Somewhat of a trap question. "downtrodden" is a feeling, not an objective experience, so there is no cultural or policy mechanism even theoretically to guarantee it. However, I do think we can make society better for men and women.

It seems to me that there is a lot of resentment towards women and a perception that men are being punished for being men.

Certainly among some people. I don't personally think that's correct though.

I'm assuming men did not feel this way when society was more openly misogynistic and wonder if this is what a lot of TRP men would like to return to

I'm not a trp cheerleader, but I also don't like painting so thickly. TRP is a large enough group that their beliefs are not very uniform. The foundation "men get a bad deal" doesn't imply "men had a good deal in the past" necessarily.

If not, what are the alternatives? How can society make men feel valued again without also devaluing women again in the process?

In my opinion, the majority of the issues are cultural. Some things that need to change:

Inappropriate sexualization of jobs, i.e. some jobs being "woman" jobs and some being "man" jobs, which is increasingly irrelevant in a high tech world.
Media having a realistic portrayal of relationships/people. One thing that I have gotten from PPD is a sympathy for TRP over this issue; it's very true that movies/tv portray awful and stupid relationships/dynamics, which young people learn from and then become frustrated because they were "taught" incorrectly.
(a more obvious one) stop stereotyping heavily in social situations.

IMO, the best world is a "you do you" world

wtknight · 2017-03-03T15:34:37+00:00

Overall I'd like to see people choose less hedonism in general, but I don't support limiting anybody's freedom in any way.

[deleted] · 2017-03-03T16:49:49+00:00

An egalitarian society where gender and the accompanying roles are completely up for (re)definition by the individual.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-03-03T15:22:11+00:00

feeling downtrodden

That's the problem tho isn't it? All this feeling downtrodden? In most cases, not all, it seems like a bunch of whining to me. Do men really not feel "valued" or just a very vocal few of them? They're not the only whiners either.

I mean if you are looking for trouble you find it.

This morning the guy at Starbucks got my order wrong. Him: a guy. Me: not a guy. Why can't I just get my plain coffee with nothing in it? Must be misogyny right????

Then, when I got to work the guys in the office were discussing college basketball when they KNOW I don't like basketball too much. HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT! Help me! Help me!

says_harsh_things · 2017-03-03T15:27:08+00:00

Im happy with the way things are now. I do wish men and women would openly communicate their desires more, even if it means hurting the other persons feelings.

I think a lot of "hate for male masculinity" is just "i dont find you attractive". If men knew the truth, theyd have an opportunity to improve.

Id like to see a lot more paternity testing. It would keep everyone more honest. Trust, but verify.

I have no problem with women being more independent, working in any specific fields, or wanting to be taken seriously for their work rather than their bodies, just be prepared that your work might suck and the criticism will be harsh out in the world.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · Fri Mar 3 15:36:09 2017 UTC

i would just like there to be zero de jure enforcement of anything to do with race or sex and would allow private culture to dictate as it wishes. this would of course lead to various private discriminations but im okay with that. otherwise not being a totalitarian fascist i have no interest in visualizing "ideal worlds" for the humans, i like to let them work it out for themselves

[deleted] · 2017-03-03T17:53:40+00:00

No. I can explain the current one.

TRP isn't seers, it's guys swapping notes.

Alth12 · 2017-03-03T16:55:43+00:00

Oh boy, these types of threads can end up sounding preachy, however...

I'd like a culture where everyone was equal and took responsibility for their actions and choices. I think most of the so called first world problems would be solved then. To me misogyny is too often flaunted around now, and men are beginning to find it irksome. Get a promotion ahead of a woman? Misogyny!

So my ideal culture would be one where you aren't judged by your gender, your skin colour, your orientation, your ancestors mistakes, but judged on your intellect. We aren't there yet, and in fact a lot of the sexism and racism of the past seems to getting fought by more sexism and racism, just from the other side. What's more I think a lot of them know they're being sexist/racist, hence they now write blogs and articles trying to redefine the terms to suit them.

I think in general there's some things that you just need to lay off of. Stop trying to force yourself in to men's social groups, or clubs. There seems a paranoia within some women that if men are allowed to gather in one place they're likely plotting some grand take over, so women need to be there, watching. Sure seems like something men would do 200 years ago, or misogynistic societies in the East still do with women (Don't let women gather on their own, they might get ideas and shit!). Let us men have our clubs, and you girls can create your clubs too, and then we'll also have clubs where both can be involved, but lets not force male-only clubs to allow women in, particularly if they're just social clubs or gyms. If they want to let you in, great, if not, oh well, that's life.

You can make men feel valued again by not diminishing their achievements under this "oh its easy for you, your a man..." nonsense you hear spouted A LOT. Do well in School? easy, your a man. Get a great job? easy, your a man etc. Never mind the effort and time you put in. Everything is portrayed as so easy for men, delivered gift wrapped with a cheque for 100 mill dollars attached.

My cousin experiences this with her twins from their teachers all the time, and it annoys her as much. "He got an A in History, but you know, we expect that from boys...but she got a C, isn't that great! you must be so proud of her!" Why should her C be more valued than his A, just because of her gender? If the teaches are like that to the parents imagine what they're like with the kids. I feel sorry for boys in education now.

Also, can we stop with the consent classes? It annoys men as much as it annoys women when they're condescendingly told not to walk home alone at night. We get it, you get it, idiots and assholes still do it. That isn't going to stop just from some little class.

Eastuss · 2017-03-03T15:14:04+00:00

Simple, all relationships are open relationships.

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PurpleBanner · 2017-03-03T17:54:10+00:00

I live in a large expensive home where I have sex constantly.

[deleted] · 2017-03-04T02:32:28+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5xczb4/for_men_who_want_regulations_in_society_to/deh8l2z/

YetAnotherCommenter · 2017-03-04T03:21:19+00:00

The complete abolition of (socially-mandated) gender roles and expectations, but no moral panics over the existence of single-sex or majority-one-sex spaces. Let the chips fall where they may.

Gender-blind laws (both statute and case law), legal paternal surrender as well as abortion pre-viability upon request. More contraception for men.

Prostitution, pornography, sexbots etc. should all be completely legal for consenting adults.

No chivalry/benevolent sexism/female privilege. No hostile sexism against anyone. Most so-called 'male privilege' is really "real manhood" privilege, so destroying socially-mandated gender norms would remove "real manhood" privilege by consequence.

The complete abolition of currently-existing "women's studies" departments, alongside any of those related "oppression studies" departments in academia. Those entire fields have been irreversibly corrupted and need to be burned before productive discussions on race/gender/sex/sexuality/etc. can happen.

A philosophical/intellectual/ideological return to Enlightenment Individualism more broadly. Complete purge of counterenlightenment/German Idealist and about 90% of postmodernist thought from the culture.

With the return of Enlightenment values we will also see a culture that values reason and the intellect emerge. This will naturally result in the cultural devaluation of "Chads" and "Stacies."

Lonny_zone · 2017-03-03T15:41:26+00:00

I want to make all women slaves. The hot ones cost a lot and suck my dick, the ugly ones are sold cheap and used as toilets. Tongue bidet. That's what's up.

alreadyredschool · 2017-03-03T15:20:50+00:00

Where men are needed, looked up to, deferred. Not where women celebrate not knowing how to cook, not pleasing a man etc.

UhKhat · 2017-03-03T15:46:11+00:00

Men and women barely interact except for child rearing and, I dunno, going to the bank to deposit money, maybe. Relationships involve about one interaction between the man and woman per month. Women aren't hired to work alongside men. Etc.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2017-03-03T16:27:57+00:00

No enforced gender roles, but also no one getting upset when things naturally sort themselves out that way most of the time.

Ercole-- · 2017-03-03T18:00:09+00:00

Do you want a return to pre-emancipation in the West?

I'm assuming men did not feel this way when society was more openly misogynistic and wonder if this is what a lot of TRP men would like to return to.

Jesus Christ, really? Is that really what you think? That's the last thing I'd want, but I haven't been to TRP in a while. What the fuck happened? Anyway..

How can society make men feel valued again without also devaluing women again in the process?

Easily. I feel valued as fuck, yet I have a minimum wage job, a cheap car, and I rent a cheap place. Women are telling men to get their shit together and then ignoring them while showering men like me with all their attention. Our society will feel right when marketing teams stop selling us false dreams.

[deleted] · 2017-03-03T15:34:27+00:00

Women on reserves.

bonersNlaughs · 2017-03-03T15:50:25+00:00

I want it to be like after WW2. my grandparents are/were always happy while being traditional. Even before WW2 would be good because we would have a righteous war to fight in. Being allies with Saudi Arabia and inadvertantly Isis and a majority of girls being sluts, the current state of the west makes me very restless through feelings of disgust and boredom.

BPremium · 2017-03-03T17:10:12+00:00

Ideal culture, to me? basically where the chubby average white dudes reigned supreme and got whatever they wanted in society. Chads get shot on sight unless they castrate themselves and pledge to give a portion of whatever they earn to a fund that can only be accessed by chubby average white guys. Women would reject and openly show contempt for all men that arent chubby white guys, but basically beg for a chubby white guy to take them. Guns and weaponry would be banned for all but chubby white dudes as well lol. /S

A ideal culture that isnt a shit post? 1950s style monogamy and culture, but with our modern tech and medicine.

[deleted] · 2017-03-03T19:24:08+00:00

Roman Empire, 50 BC. Probably living in Alexandria rather than Rome.

Women would be, like, Spartan warriors or just waft around in diaphanous gowns.

[deleted] · 2017-03-03T23:20:41+00:00

Mesopotamia 400 B.C. or China roughly the same period. Feudal Japan 1500 A.D.

Modern day Shia Muslim countries don't seem half bad either

darksoldierk · 2017-03-04T00:04:04+00:00

Imagine the 50's culture but with a few changes. Instead of men being expected to work and women being expected to stay at home, the expectation is for one partner to work (either gender) and the other to stay at home and take care of the home. No maternity leave other than the vacation and personal days at work. If you need more than that, than quit and resubmit your resume when you are ready to come back to work. No such thing as "no fault divorce". No alimony unless it is proven that one partner was physically abusive to the other. Child support would be capped at the average cost of raising a child in that municipality and proportional to the payee's income. Child support is taxable to the recipient and tax deductible to the payer (just like every other sort of income currently in existence). Men can financially abort. No quotas in the workplace, if you want a BOD with all men or all women, start your own company and elect whoever you want.

These changes will bring back balance and will help protect both genders, while also helping keep both genders valuable not just to society, but to the opposite gender as well. These changes would also bring more equality between the genders.

ifelsedowhile · 2017-03-04T02:53:20+00:00

a society where prostitution is regulated and cheap for everyone.

Q4M Can you explain your ideal culture and the place of men and women in it?

Comments

the underlying principle

Title	Q4M Can you explain your ideal culture and the place of men and women in it?
Author	UhKhat
Upvotes	3
Comments	133
Date	March 3, 2017 3:04 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5xass7/q4m_can_you_explain_your_ideal_culture_and_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4m-can-you-explain-your-ideal-culture-and-the.269725 https://theredarchive.com/post/269725