CMV it takes more self confidence to form genuine emotionally open relationship.

Sepean · 2015-05-27T09:45:40+00:00

It also takes more confidence to ride very fast on an ill-maintained motorcycle without a helmet.

MagicGainbow · 2015-05-27T14:15:14+00:00

I think it has nothing to do with self confidence, i'm an open guy, but I know that it's a bad idea to open up/get emotional with women, it always comes back later.

Even askmen agrees on this, it will be stored up to use as ammo for future arguments.

Bakerofpie · 2015-05-27T10:40:40+00:00

Depends. It is all about finding the right person and waiting until they've proven themselves. Throwing your true vulnerability out there, and I'm not just talking about opening up about the time your grandma died, is not inherently brave, unless you count being reckless and naive as bravery. It does take bravery to trust someone in that way, but that doesn't mean it's a virtue to throw around or be particularly proud of.

And again with the assumption that all manipulation is bad. My Husband can play my emotions like a fiddle because he knows every part of me and I have opened up to him about every deepest fear and insecurity. There are some things communication cannot solve, and his deep understanding of me allows him to "manipulate" my emotions to put me in a better mood, and yes, sometimes to make me desire him more sexually (the horror!). These are things he largely learned from RP, and frankly I am happy and feel more loved that he would put that kind of effort into our relationship. While he doesn't show his emotions to the same level I do, there is nothing disingenuous about it. He simply doesn't emote or gush out his emotions the same way I do because that isn't his personality. I see no reason for him to force something that isn't there. It's already at full capacity - my capacity for emotion and affection just happens to be higher.

The issue that gets my goat is the arrogant assumption that RP relationships are automatically phony or shallow. I absolutely do not disagree that some men take it to levels that seem to be bordering on insanity (find a way to get out of town stat if you catch a cold, because if she sees you getting sick she will immediately start looking for a new cock to jump on! - though I do give the benefit of the doubt to those men in hopes they are being purposefully hyperbolic). To live in fear of ever being open with anyone and avoiding showing any vulnerability whatsoever to such extreme lengths is not remotely brave, and I would personally pity such a person, but it's their lives. I can't imagine from an evopsych standpoint that any human without a mental disorder could be happy that way, but I can't speak for everyone and claim that to be absolute truth.

TLDR; I both agree and disagree. The kind of manipulation and aloofness you seem to be attributing to RP relationships is reductionist at best, if not outright false. It takes courage to be open with someone, but to be open is not necessarily a virtue or wise and should be used sparingly and after very careful consideration. If you are talking ONSs or even "plates" (someone you are casually dating but not particularly considering for an actual relationship) why the hell would you take the time to let them get to know your true self on a deep level? Most of the men saying not to show a woman a modicum of weakness or vulnerability are not in relationships and not currently looking for something serious anyway.

Commander-floyd · 2015-05-27T11:25:03+00:00

Did DiCaprio hold you in an embrace at the bow of a cruiseship yet?

Garl_Vinland · 2015-05-27T16:49:28+00:00

Whether it's the hardest thing isn't the point, you have to weigh the risk against the reward. The risk is what drives most men to TRP in the first place. It's the fact that a "genuine emotionally open relationship" isn't realistic. Rollo said it best:

We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.

We want to, so badly.

If we do, we soon are no longer able to.

TRP isn't about doing the hardest thing for the sake of it. It's about accepting reality and making the best of it. If the reward (chance of having this type of relationship) outweighed the risk (chance of losing any type of relationship), men would be more open to it.

[deleted] · 2015-05-27T14:57:52+00:00

Thats because women find vulnerability and insecurity unattractive. It shows confidence because a guys got to have options if he's going to open up like that.

InformalCriticism · 2015-05-27T15:29:59+00:00

I witnessed a defense of a thesis recently by a therapist who insisted vulnerability was a virtue of many virtues defining love. The context of this love, however, is not necessarily all forms of love. He has a defensible thesis, but the counter is just as viable, that vulnerability in romantic love just doesn't make the list every time. Fraternal love? Absolutely. Paternal and Maternal? Probably. Sisters? Maybe not. The more difficult question is whether vulnerability necessarily makes love stronger, and there's far too much evidence to the contrary.

ExpendableOne · 2015-05-27T16:05:05+00:00

There are a lot of things that men can do that stem from confidence but that will virtually always be regarded as "beta" behaviour from any outside perspective, if not simply because they are not associated with traditional masculine behaviour. You could argue that someone who is generally quiet needs to be confident in himself to present himself that way, not really feeling the need to posture or to overcompensate. From any outsider's perspective though, especially women, he's just being a meek "beta".

You could argue that someone who puts other people's need above his own requires confidence, because a man who is confident knows his own needs, knows what he can and can't live without, and has the greater strength/discipline to handle the sacrifice. From an outsider's perspective, especially women, that guy is just a pushover who deserves to have everything taken from him because he's a just another disposable "beta".

You could argue that it requires confidence for a man to ever be dependent on a woman for anything, because it requires a good sense of self-awareness and one's own skills and limitations, or acceptance of one's own strengths and weaknesses. From an outsider's perspective though, that dependence is just another form of weakness and "beta" behaviour, and whatever synergy that may arise from it is completely meaningless.

Yes, you can argue that it takes a lot of confidence to be open with people like that, and that men being genuinely emotional requires a lot of confidence but the sad reality is that it's just not going to be interpreted that way by neither men or women. At the end of the day, women's interpretations of what confidence is, and how they should value it, pretty much goes back to the general social status quo. If anything women would sooner see it as a sign of weakness when they see men do it, and as something that they should feel free to exploit because it is interpreted as a diversion from gender roles(therefore unmanly/bad and deserving of lesser treatment). Either way, it doesn't really count for anything when that confidence is viewed, from any outside perspective, as weakness/meekness because you are a man.

[deleted] · 2015-05-27T16:29:31+00:00

It takes more courage to form whichever sort of relationship you are not yet experienced with forming.

If you are an aggressive asshole, then, yes, it might take more courage to open yourself up and seriously make an effort at creating a mutual understanding with someone you care about.

However, if you are a weeping pussy-boy, that sort of thing is safe and comfortable for you. If you are a weeping pussy-boy, it will take more courage to form a rude, fast, passion-driven relationship, or to form an asymmetrical relationship between mentor and plaything.

Get it through your head: whoever you are, your way is not best. Your way is simply whatever is most natural for you.

Whisper · 2015-05-27T18:57:07+00:00

You know what takes even more courage than that? Sticking your hand in the garbage disposal and turning it on.

alexdelargeorange · 2015-05-27T11:31:46+00:00

It really comes down to what will work to your advantage. It's risk/reward. TRP is just highly sceptical about supposed potential rewards for opening up. What does one actually gain from someone else knowing your deepest, darkest shit? What emotional benefits are there to such a connection?

One could say emotional security and comfort....but it's a double-edge sword because they now have access to the nuclear strike button. Hopefully you picked the right person to open up to, otherwise they'll destroy you.

[deleted] · 2015-05-27T16:23:20+00:00

Eh. Men are told that women want emotional openness and so being emotionally open is a cowardly way to kiss ass. They think it's their secret silver bullet to pussy, not their deep secret.

vincentninja68 · 2015-05-27T16:42:59+00:00

Relationships in general are about picking your battles with who you decide to open up to. Yes, it is a gamble, because you don't know if they'll ever use what you decided to confide in them against you later.

Will all SO do this inevitably? I doubt it. Again it's important to get to know your partner enough to know if they're worthy of that kinda of vulnerability. Of course if you open up to a crazy person, they're gonna exploit it.

Now that said, I heavily value open communication between partners, if something is gonna kill the relationship because you were honest and open about how you feel about something, then you need to let it before it's too late and you REALLY get hurt later.

GayLubeOil · 2015-05-27T18:25:14+00:00

Every weakness and insecurity expressed to a woman will be used against you at a later time.

crankypants15 · 2015-05-27T19:31:58+00:00

I can't change your view, because it DOES take confidence to be more open. I was that formerly super shy guy in high school who finally fixed his life, but it took 20 years, and a divorce where I lost nearly everything to find that confidence. If it wasn't for my abusive wife, my life would not have changed into something much better after the divorce. I'm money poor, but happy.

But I did it. I'm confident, I ask women for what I want, and most of the time I get it, which makes me happy.

The other part of the equation is relationships are give and take. If she doesn't know what she wants, she can't tell me, I can't do that, and she won't be happy with me.

Anyway, openness should be slow and gradual, not sudden. Open up too much too fast and you're bound to get hurt.

triceratraps · 2015-05-27T22:30:20+00:00

This is bullshit and you are justifying unloading your emotional burden on someone else. If the first thing you do when you meet a woman is latch onto her and tell her your deepest fears in an attempt to find comiseration you are weak and caused someone else stress for no good reason. What you are doing by saying it is braver to "open yourself up" is having your cake and eating it too. You gave her a shit load of worry by adding your issues to hers and now you also feel like you did the brave thing. Male hamsters are also real.

wazzup987 · 2015-05-27T09:53:27+00:00

Yeah vulnerability is hard, its asign of what RP would call alphaness.

Title	CMV it takes more self confidence to form genuine emotionally open relationship.
Author	Commander-floyd
Upvotes	10
Comments	45
Date	May 27, 2015 9:28 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/37fuy8/cmv_it_takes_more_self_confidence_to_form_genuine/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-it-takes-more-self-confidence-to-form-genuine.281935 https://theredarchive.com/post/281935

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