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Discussion: Is There Dread Game Here?

[deleted]

October 21, 2014

3 upvotes

/r/PurplePillDebate

A topic that's revisted often here, but I'm not trying to re-hash mere definitional arguments. Let's try this:

It's 2000 and Leonardo DiCaprio begins dating Jane Smith, a (frankly frumpy and overweight) 38 year old paralegal. Leo is primed for a few big roles in Gangs of New York (with Cameron Diaz), Catch Me If You Can (with Amy Adams), and The Aviator (with Kate Beckinsale).
It's 1991 and Cindy Crawford begins dating John Doe, a 40 year old regional manager at a Pennsylvania paper company. He's paunchy and balding. Cindy has recently been the object of affections of Richard Gere, a handsome and successful actor, and Rande Gerber, a male model and businessman.

Is there dread game afoot? Or does the "game" imply some intentional action on the part of one of the partners?

Could Jane or John effectively run dread game on their boyfriend/girlfriend?

Do we need to know much about the individual personalities of any of these people to accurately guess who will feel more jealousy, who will engage in more mate-guarding-type behavior, or who will express more dissatisfaction with their partners' interactions with the opposite sex?

Visuals:

Leo: http://explore.bfi.org.uk/sites/explore.bfi.org.uk/files/styles/gallery_full/public/bfi_stills/bfi-00o-75q.jpg?itok=QIc7uIK1

Cindy: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-clr_X16T6tE/T-noR_l-j4I/AAAAAAAAA9M/UU1AKLKJQao/s1600/90sfashions9.jpg

Edit: [strategicatomicmoose] (http://www.reddit.com/user/strategicatomicmoose), since you've linked this to TBP, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

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Post Information

Title	Discussion: Is There Dread Game Here?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	3
Comments	84
Date	October 21, 2014 4:29 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2jwfy5/discussion_is_there_dread_game_here/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-is-there-dread-game-here.284534 https://theredarchive.com/post/284534

Comments

[–]TRPACC 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]ms_kittyfantasticothe great wall of vagina-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]ms_kittyfantasticothe great wall of vagina0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]FullRedvolution 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ms_kittyfantasticothe great wall of vagina1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]FullRedvolution 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]homo_homini_lupus 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago* (72 children) | Copy Link

[–]ms_kittyfantasticothe great wall of vagina0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (70 children) | Copy Link

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]DocileBanalBovine 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]give_me_shinieshere for the bants-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]give_me_shinieshere for the bants0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Well, I wouldn't go for somebody who is not attractive to me, or who I don't consider a "catch" in the first place. I don't think anyone would, I'm not lashing out against being "superficial" in that sense. However, I'm quite certain I wouldn't leave if my beloved experienced a decline in his "SMV" at this point, after we've bonded and established a r/ship, I wouldn't go "hmm, now that his SMV is significantly lower than mine, I can/should do better". It's odd to me that someone could be so…cold and view their partner that way.

What you seem to be saying is that if you can do better than what you've got, you would/should "trade up". Why would anyone stay after an illness, or weight gain, or any "SMV-reducing event" at all if that were the case? I don't think most people are that opportunistic.

It seems to me like you're forgetting that once you're with somebody and have been with them a while, "SMV" matters less and not everybody is so obsessed with status and having the hottest possible partner. If that were the case, nobody would ever stop looking. There's always someone hotter/richer/smarter/whatever.

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

However, I'm quite certain I wouldn't leave if my beloved experienced a decline in his "SMV" at this point, after we've bonded and established a r/ship, I wouldn't go "hmm, now that his SMV is significantly lower than mine, I can/should do better". It's odd to me that someone could be so…cold and view their partner that way.

People break over a decline in attraction up all the time. Of course, it's callous to leave your partner because their attractiveness takes a non self-inflicted nosedive (an accident that disfigures or paralyzes a person, an illness or whatever), but what if a partner lets him(her)self go once in a relationship because (s)he grows complacent and shows no intentions to ever become attractive to you again?

What you seem to be saying is that if you can do better than what you've got, you would/should "trade up".

I am rather arguing that under the right circumstances people would trade up - whether they should trade up is entirely their own prerogative.

It seems to me like you're forgetting that once you're with somebody and have been with them a while, "SMV" matters less and not everybody is so obsessed with status and having the hottest possible partner.

It's not about the hottest possible partner, but about a partner you consider hot aka attractive. Someone at TRP wrote "love is the feeling that you can't do better", which may be quite unromantic as a statement, but actually makes a point. Because I dare to say that the feeling that you're extremely dating below your league is bound to fuel resentment in the long run (unless it's countered by a crisis of conscience because said "dating down" is due to exterior circumstances like an accident, an illness or whatever).

[–]give_me_shinieshere for the bants0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

People break over a decline in attraction up all the time. Of course, it's callous to leave your partner because their attractiveness takes a non self-inflicted nosedive (an accident that disfigures or paralyzes a person, an illness or whatever), but what if a partner lets him(her)self go once in a relationship because (s)he grows complacent and shows no intentions to ever become attractive to you again?

How often is it a loss of attraction due to a decline in "SMV", as opposed to a loss of attraction due to laziness, distance, "growing apart", etc? I remember reading a thread by a guy who dumped his overweight gf; he complained that she was depressed, insecure, lazy as fuck and altogether just dragging him down. Her self-loathing and her attitude turned him off. He didn't mind her "low SMV" fat ass before the depression and the low self-esteem made her unattractive.

I am rather arguing that under the right circumstances people would trade up - whether they should trade up is entirely their own prerogative.

I disagree. Yes, some people would ("starter wife" and the trope of leaving the ageing wife for a younger model exist for a reason) but I don't think this ice cold, goal-oriented, machivellian way is how most people operate when it comes to intimate r/ships. There's a lot more to people's r/ships than pure "SMV".

Because I dare to say that the feeling that you're extremely dating below your league is bound to fuel resentment in the long run (unless it's countered by a crisis of conscience because said "dating down" is due to exterior circumstances like an accident, an illness or whatever).

This is just the thing though, I'm not sure how common this sentiment is. For one, most people aren't attracted to people way below their "league" in the first place. If someone does get into a r/ship with someone with dramatically lower "SMV", it's likely because whatever SMV differential existed was mitigated by some other factors that make the person worthwhile in the eyes of the high SMV partner. Eg: it's obvious Hugh Jackman could do "better", but I'm sure he sees value in his wife and their r/ship that makes her/it worthwhile beyond her SMV.

If someone has a good thing going, they're not going to mess it up and throw it all away because some other guy is richer, or there's the hotter girl. You're underestimating the inertia and comfort in LTRs and the dislike most would have to discarding a good situation for something unknown.

[–]exit_sandman1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If someone does get into a r/ship with someone with dramatically lower "SMV", it's likely because whatever SMV differential existed was mitigated by some other factors that make the person worthwhile in the eyes of the high SMV partner.

Probably, but now assume that the person who is already below the league of his or her partner gets even less attractive over time for faults that are his or her own. The other question would be how likely that actually is that someone would let him- or herself go under these circumstances, given the fact that (s)he should be well aware that (s)he is already in a delicate position by virtue of being easily replaceable. This would by the way be the aforementioned "built-in dread" of such a lopsided relationship: someone who is aware that (s)he is already "dating up" probably is a lot more inclined to make sure that the gap doesn't grow and is a lot more sensitive any kind of change. To illustrate this with values: If you are a 4 dating a 6, you probably make sure you don't turn into a 2.

Eg: it's obvious Hugh Jackman could do "better", but I'm sure he sees value in his wife and their r/ship that makes her/it worthwhile beyond her SMV.

Hugh Jackman is really a special case, but I agree - unlike, say, Tim Robbins, he certainly could have done better. I think it's endearing and actually respectable that he did choose to stick to his woman even though he could have all the fun in the world as a single (or snatch one of the choicest trophy wives he could get if he was inclined to do so), though personally I wouldn't do it.

[–]ms_kittyfantasticothe great wall of vagina-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Agharta15 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's sort of what I'm asking with the OP.

In one of the examples, Leo is dating a woman who we could probably uncontroversially call "Low SMV." So if she sees her boyfriend making out with Kate Beckinsale in a movie, do you think there's going to be an element of dread there?

(visual of Kate: http://img005.lazygirls.info/people/kate_beckinsale/kate_beckinsale_kb_aviator_premiere_2004_08_EkWJ37U.sized.jpg)

Does Leo have to consciously work to instill this dread for it to be "dread game" ? Or does merely having Kate's number in his phone, and making out with her on screen, make it implicit dread game (the same way we could say a natural smooth-talker "games" a woman without even trying)?

Do you have to "try" for something to be dread game? Is dread game prevalent in every relationship with significant differences in attractiveness?

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ms_kittyfantasticothe great wall of vagina0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]homo_homini_lupus 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]ms_kittyfantasticothe great wall of vagina1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOneNeither4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ms_kittyfantasticothe great wall of vagina1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you can argue that dread game is purposely doing something to make your partner feel insecure, jealous or dispensable; then couldn't it be argue that the higher value partner purposely doing nothing to address being in he role of the higher value partner is also dread?

I suppose... Are they supposed to try and be of lesser value for the other?

If any feelings of jealousy, insecurity or being dispensable arises, within reasonable expectations, would it be that person's responsibility to address it?

You should make your partner feel safe, generally speaking. Reasonable expectations being not a crazy person, e.g. jealous no matter what? I would think both partners have this responsibility in all relationships.

If the dread is still happening, and the higher partner know it's happening without him/her even trying, does he/she have a responsibility to alleviate that sentiment?

Again, I'm not sure what the right answer is here. What should they do? Is being more attractive than someone else something you can control? Or is it just "being yourself"?

I don't see being more attractive something that's done to purposefully make someone jealous. Knowing that you're more attractive than someone else, and knowing that it makes that other person insecure... Where does that leave you?

I like your points.

[–]homo_homini_lupus 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hyperrrealLoves fun1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]an_absolute_roseRed Pill Boy0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

[–]powerkickPoly, Bi, Blue, Betafag8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]an_absolute_roseRed Pill Boy1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–]Those_Who_RemainIrrelevant Homosexual6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Agharta15 -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Those_Who_RemainIrrelevant Homosexual4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]exit_sandmanstill not the MGTOW sandman FFS2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]give_me_shinieshere for the bants1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Agharta15 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Those_Who_RemainIrrelevant Homosexual4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Agharta153 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Those_Who_Remain1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Agharta153 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

...Not really, since women still message (and I assume date) lower rated men.

The 80/20 rule is that women are only sexually attracted to a relatively small number of men, not that they don't date other men.

You can't just take small bites out of the results and apply them to hypotheses that aren't even relevant to the study. That's not how good argumentation works.

The idea is that this gives weight to a hypothesis. It's supporting evidence, not proof. How is a finding that 80% of men fall below the median attractiveness level not relevant to a discussion about men and women's attractiveness? How does this not at least tend to show that women are significantly more selective (/have higher physical standards for attractiveness) than men do?

I actually think the interplay between the ratings and the responses is fascinating.

[–]give_me_shinieshere for the bants0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Agharta15 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

That's a fair point. Obviously, women do not reach an expiration date at 21 - there are, to understate things a bit, plenty of hot 23 year old women.

On the flipside, I think most men and women are really invested in the idea that there's parity in sexual attraction, that hetero men and women are roughly attracted to the same numbers of the opposite sex and that this means there will be someone attractive for everyone.

That's an understandable emotional investment. Most people want to think someone will find them attractive. Most TRPers, even, believe that they're in the top 20% (or that they will be at some point in their late 40s, when they reach their peak).

To me, the OKC numbers mirror my anecdotal experience pretty well. I grew up with 3 sisters; in high school, they'd go through the yearbook and say "he's hot!" regarding just a few guys. I grew up with 3 brothers as well; in high school, we'd go through the year book and say "she's hot!" regarding a ton of girls.

Maybe there is parity and it's just that it's expressed differently, maybe women aren't 'allowed' to express physical attraction to guys as much and therefore only do so for the most attractive guys. But I don't see much evidence of that.

[–]give_me_shinieshere for the bants0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

LOL @ men peaking in their late 40s. I find TRPers like to fancy themselves all George Clooneys or Roger Sterlings or something.

You know what? This study mirrors my experiences.

In high school, there were a few hot girls the guys all used to rave about (usually girls perceived as “easy”). We’d sit around and discuss who was hot and argue. “Eww, you think he’s hot? Wth?”, “you have no taste!”. My sister, for example, thinks Jay-Z is hot and one of my best friends is crazy about Benedict Cumberbatch – I think they’re both…blah, to put it mildly. You also see less conventionally attractive male celebrities who girls still crush over, not so for meh looking female celebrities. Regardless, at the end of the day most people paired off with someone.

I also think the “most men are ugly” hypothesis ignores that women have more attraction cues than just physical appearance; the way a man carries himself, personality, etc play a big part in attraction. Personally, attraction is always instant for me but lots of women find that a guy grows on them, or appears more attractive in person than he would in a still photo.

I do think most people are attractive to someone or some segment of the population (there are people with all kinds of fetishes and kinks out there). The universally unattractive are a small minority in both sexes imo.

[–]Agharta152 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I also think the “most men are ugly” hypothesis ignores that women have more attraction cues than just physical appearance; the way a man carries himself, personality, etc play a big part in attraction. Personally, attraction is always instant for me but lots of women find that a guy grows on them, or appears more attractive in person than he would in a still photo.

No argument here.

Regardless, at the end of the day most people paired off with someone

And TRPers would say that's because (a) men are attracted to most women, and (b) women are willing to pair off with men they're not attracted to.

LOL @ men peaking in their late 40s. I find TRPers like to fancy themselves all George Clooneys or Roger Sterlings or something.

Yes, that's definitely hamstering.

You know what? This study mirrors my experiences.

Cool. I suppose both of us live our lives based on how we perceive the world. Both will probably filter new information through our preexisting biases.

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Cool. How's your wardrobe? Shoes? Accessories? Do you wear anything to even out your complexion? You should. Make sure you wear SPF, you don't want to get wrinkles. Are your eyebrows framing your eyes? Is your facial hair flattering to the shape of your face?

Then wear cream to smooth out any wrinkles you get. Don't forget your nails. Don't forget to shave any body hair that is awkwardly growing out.

What color is flattering on you? Is your skin warm, cool, or neutral? Do you have oily skin or dry skin? Do you use a moisturizer? Do you use a matifier? What are your best angles for photographs? Do you use filters for your facebook/instagram photos? Do you edit your photos? Do you dress to your body type? Do you read about men's fashion to stay current? Do you dress your age?

EDIT because I keep thinking of more things I know women do for their looks:

Do you watch youtube tutorials about your face/style? Do you own several books about fashion and face care (rather than make up, I guess it would be face care? If there are any for men...I wonder...)? Do you buy men's fashion magazines? Do you update your wardrobe color and style according to the current season? Do you have clothes for various occasions (your "sexy look", your "boyish look", your "edgy/boho/street/classic/concert/sporty look"?) Do you have a style/fashion icon? Do you have a signature style? Do you follow celebrity style (as if that was covered in magazines for men the same way it is for women, but I digress) and try out new trends?

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