Do All Men Need the Red Pill? Are some men above it?

MagicGainbow · 2014-09-26T17:51:55+00:00

I think that even if a man doesn't need it he should be aware, i've seen plenty of natural alphas/leaders turn soft and lose everything.

sleuthoftrades · 2014-09-26T17:58:58+00:00

I very much doubt that the top couple of percent of men in wealth, power, status, or attractiveness would need TRP.

powerkick · 2014-09-27T18:27:59+00:00

Not all men need it because everything TRP teaches that is remotely useful is taught in other manners and lifestyles with less toxic and isolationist side-effects.

an_absolute_rose · 2014-09-26T17:53:09+00:00

Attractive and naturally successful men don't need it, but I would definitely argue that all men can benefit from the red pill ideology.

Pointless_Endeavors · 2014-09-26T18:29:43+00:00

the ability to go to a college of your choosing/based on your academic credentials

the ability to pursue casual relationships in college due to the availability of free/cheap contraceptives

the possibility of having a serious relationship where you don't have to consult senior members of your family for approval

various opportunities to compete for a job where you are not limited by class or caste.

How is any of this limited to males? Even typically discriminated minorities, myself included, enjoy all these privileges as long as we work for it. Some even have an easier job doing so than white males because they are minorities.

All these advantages come from living in a first world country, not from gender and has little to do with either RP or BP.

cxj · 2014-09-26T19:07:10+00:00

This reminds me of all the times i end up in a discussion with people about gender issues or whatever and they end up asking me "well fine, in your opinion, what should women do? My answer is always the same, and always catches them off guard: "that depends on what her goals are."

My answer to you would be the same here. "Do all men need the red pill?" Likewise, that depends entirely on their goals. If you want to get consistent sex, possibly from multiple girls at the same time, without commitment, trp offers very good advice for getting that. Not everybody wants that, though. A friend of mine is a textbook irl MGTOW, like when i first read about MGTOW i immediately thought of him. I once asked him if he had ever heard of the movement and he said he read about it once and it basically summed up what he is already doing and never went back to the site. He has basically dedicated his life to writing and does not want to compromise that life for a relationship. He had read pua material and concluded that the amount of work it would take him to get girls would also compromise too much of his time, and so he just called it a day. He does not stand to gain much from trp.

DaThrowaway808 · 2014-09-26T18:34:29+00:00

Does that mean that I'm in the so-called "top 10%" of men already?

Sure? You're comparing apples and oranges in most of your post. The ability to choose college, job, spouse and contraceptives aren't what determine male and female relations or if they do its a very loose correlation.

Does that mean that RP theory doesn't apply to them? Have they superseded it? Or is there something they are missing?

There are plenty of men who naturally are ambitious, stay fit, and have moderate success with women. Are they HAPPY in their relationships or are they happy they are IN a relationship? Are they getting the amount of sex they want? Are they in a dead bedroom environment? Quite frankly, most people don't bother to do the self-reflection to figure these things about until it hits critical mass.

On the surface, most people aren't going to tell you how miserable they are. Are you capable of telling when a relationship is failing? Can you predict three months into the future that two people will break up and give evidence and observations to how you know?

Sure, I can tell you about happy couples on the surface, but I know PLENTY of people who appear happy on the surface but have some very distinct grievances in their current relationship. Anecdotal evidence swings both ways.

Do All Men Need the Red Pill? Are some men above it?

Not all men need it because they already have it.

biscotti_karate · 2014-09-26T19:47:17+00:00

Men and women definitely need the truth. From what I understand, the goal is of red pill is to acknowledge the truth about gender as well as use it as "sexual strategy." Obviously, RP's quest for truth and sex has gotten them into the rhetoric zone more than a lot, but that's beside the point.

If you think you're above the truth, you'll be one of those people easily manipulated by society and pop culture. You're basically saying you've got a brainwashable brain. Do you want to be that kind of person or do you want to be somebody that can see the real deal in front of their eyes? If you like to blow with the wind and trust that the mainstream opinions are always pointing you in the right direction, well, good luck with life?

lonGterMgoalS · 2014-09-26T19:49:58+00:00

Nah. I don't think all men need TRP. In fact I didn't know what it was until a good friend put me on to it. He said to take a look and give a "natural's point of view." I couldn't believe how many dudes struggle with sex and girls until I started lurking. I always thought this shit was basic common sense. Apparently it ain't.

I do think more "naturals" would probably benefit the sub though. Getting advice on women from other guys who need advice on getting women themselves ain't too smart IMO but we don't really search for these places to know they exist.

I don't even know how the majority of the guys found out about it. They must've googled "get sex" or something I guess.

We_Are_Legion · 2014-09-26T19:50:09+00:00

Let me avoid that conclusion you're expecting. You know the one. "You're a naturale bourgeoisie alpha" reading the pitiful unlucky proletariat below your level and going "Why can't they just eat cake?" or "why can't they just get this inarticulable it?". Though this argument obviously applies.

That kind of advocacy I'll avoid for today. Instead, I'll say that the difference between you and the next guy who PMs me isn't that he needs help, and you don't. Its that he wants help and you don't.

The game is always being played. One doesn't just get to opt out.

This game is not divided into a world of RP or blue. Of perceived oppression and romantic happiness. Its the pointless ratrace of life. One boy may enter it running, and go far under momentum alone, some may just be naturally skilled while the next may be relegated to years of expensive and sensitive tuition before he can even interact normally with another child.

Red Pill is not contained in the strategies that seek to manipulate your partner into giving you what you want. It isn't even the recommendation of them. Those are applications that followed after the model.

Red pill is an attempt at explaining this ratrace. Red Pill is an interpretation of the rules, as they pertain specifically to the sexual market of today. The interplay of incentives and disincentives. Human nature and how it reacts to circumstance, environment and experience. And how it can be predicted and taken advantage of for individual gain.

The Red Pill itself is merely information. If you don't find our information correct, or if you decide you don't like what it entails or the tone is wrong. It is perfectly alright too, move on.

Because the red pill isn't objective truth.

Its a very specific interpretation of the truth, created for the purpose of very specific and practical ends, formed from the minds of people who, for whatever reason, found themselves questioning "why should we play fair?"

They were largely the disenfranchised. And they have become exceedingly good at achieving some of those ends. But the information we've uncovered of how to play, and how not to be played can be used for good and bad ends.

So to your question, if someone encounters no dating issues their whole life, sure. They can ignore this tool. But most people do invest enormous amounts of heartache and effort into their love lives, while encounter scant return on investment. I say being smart and efficient is worth it. I say complacency, with red pill, or without, is something to avoid. And for that, understanding red pill, and internalizing redpill is a worthwhile pursuit.

biscotti_karate · 2014-09-26T22:25:48+00:00

[deleted]

[deleted] · 2014-09-28T04:36:53+00:00

Well, TRP claims their statements about women are generalizations* so it must be irrelevant for some men and women.

^{*/u/redpillschool said it might only apply to a small fraction of 3% of all women or something like that...}

[deleted] · Fri Sep 26 18:17:09 2014 UTC

[permanently deleted]

We_Are_Legion · 2014-09-26T18:20:12+00:00

[deleted]

Aerobus · 2014-09-26T21:12:29+00:00

I think there is no man or woman above the red pill. There was a post on RPW a while back where a woman recounted how she felt she was above RPW. She felt that she already had understood and internalized many of RPW's philosophies. After she reflected a bit, she found out that she was wrong and adopted a more humble attitude.

[deleted] · 2014-09-27T05:16:29+00:00

Red Pill Theory != The Red Pill Subreddit

Plenty of men are "above" it but I fail to see how willful ignorance is a good thing.

StabbyPants · 2014-09-27T22:51:48+00:00

hang on, i thought you were going to talk about the sexual side of things. These points are also true for the average western woman.

exit_sandman · 2014-09-28T22:09:48+00:00

No, not all men need the red pill. Men who already are successful and have great women to complement their lives certainly have little use for game and little need for awareness of female manipulative behavior are perfectly fine without it, as are idealistic bluepillers who are living in mutually loving and happy relationships.

My father for example would have had little need for TRP; he was headstrong and assertive and snatched away the prettiest among the girls of his year at the unversity, who happened to be fiercely loyal when other women would have bailed, had only contempt for materialistic inclinations, and never expected him to build his life around pampering her. If anything, he should have listened to her more often because this would have improved his quality of life and prevented his heart attack.
Or a friend of my parents who was already gifted with a high SMV (tall, manly, charming, cocky, funny) and had gone through a string of girlfriends before finally getting together with a long-term acquaintance with whom he had a mutual crush for a long term before it finally worked out; and who was way cool as well (comparable to my mom; coincidentally they're best friends. So yeah). Here again, he should listened to her more often because it would have improved his quality of life and prevented him getting diabetes.
Or the father of a friend of mine who was doctor and married another doctor, and despite both of them working managed to raise six children yet both of them seemed surprisingly content even 25 years after they married.

But...

My grandfather, some salt-of-the-earth guy, married a woman who thought she was entitled to some kind of high status man and despite the fact that he was a good provider, she always pined for someone classier and wealthier and always let him know this (bonus point for her having secretly had a child out of wedlock with some other guy, which probably had a hand in her marrying him). He has put her on a pedestal, in turn my dear granny made his life hell by wearing him through constant nagging and brought him to an early grave. He made every mistake TRP has identified and it ultimately killed him. This man would have needed the red pill.
My uncle - a typical STEM-guy - married a woman he had the hots for in high school (according to my mother, she must have been very attractive back then) when they were 35ish. Turned out she was very comfortable to blow his money for total bullshit and a total psycho to boot (not exaggerating; she spent some time at a nuthouse). Divorcing her cost him his house and a 6 figure sum yet it still was worth it. This man would have needed the red pill.
The father of a friend of mine married a single mother who was super-compliant at the start of their relationship, but got ever more controlling once they were married with children. Psycho terror for the whole family was pretty regular on the menu, and her poor treatment of him let the guy constantly grew brain tumors. She blew all his money, let their son (my aforementioned friend) slave away to keep the business afloat, once her husband was too incapacitated by his tumor she regularly locked him up while her lover was visiting her, and she ultimately divorced him once she was unable to milk him any further. This man would have needed the red pill..
The best friend of my girlfriend who wifed up a borderline retarded single mother of two (two different fathers) because she was pretty (and he looked like a piece of modern art), and who immediately got fired after the marriage because she didn't take a day of for the celebration and since then has pretty much done nothing to contribute, but wastes his hard-earned money for stupid shit they don't need. This man would have needed the red pill.
The longest relationships both of my two oldest friends had were both with controlling, domineering and constantly discontent women, who pretty much reorganized their social lives the way they saw fit. One of them was a materialistc entitled hag (not unlike my grandmother tbh), the other was ultra-possessive, extremely egocentric, and lacked the capacity for basic empathy. These guys would have needed the red pill (and one of them even took it, yay!).
All my friends who were notoriously poor with women and who had their first real relationship in their mid or late 20s or early 30s because they bought into the narrative of how women are and what women like and how they should be themselves and how everyone deserves to be taken "as they are". Yes, these guys would have needed the red pill as well.

(by the way, none of this is made up; but the list isn't exhaustive)

Title	Do All Men Need the Red Pill? Are some men above it?
Author	biscotti_karate
Upvotes	5
Comments	67
Date	September 26, 2014 5:36 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2hjnm4/do_all_men_need_the_red_pill_are_some_men_above_it/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-all-men-need-the-red-pill-are-some-men-above-it.284753 https://theredarchive.com/post/284753

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