Does TRP and PUA over-complicate things?

myNthrowaway · 2014-07-04T22:29:26+00:00

Yes, but I also understand why. For me, it's like explaining the technical terms of language. The human brain has the innate skill of learning and using language intuitively, so you can use words and verbs correctly without stopping to think why. But if you explain why, it sounds more complex. A person can correctly use the imperative tense without knowing what it's called by a linguist.

So likewise, when someone is explaining a social dynamic and develop a theory of why the dynamic happens with their own lingo, it sounds a lot more complicated than it plays out. What happens with RP in my opinion, is that the userbase was clueless to pick up on social cues and corporal language to begin with. Many of them seem to lack intuition. So they require a more thorough explanation instead of operating perceptively like most adjusted people do. Some of them even learn specific phrases to use in a certain situation, in a similar way someone who doesn't know a language would memorize a phrase to use, without intuitively coming up with it.

A naturally charismatic person doesn't have to stop and think why their actions work, why they attract people. A person with more difficulties has to be observant of the behavior and break it into steps and terms to deliberately emulate them as to acquire the skill they lack, or to improve it. This can easily turn into overanalysis. The observations, explanations and methods are always more complicated than the actual dynamic itself.

alphabetmod · 2014-07-04T22:04:43+00:00

I was thinking about this the other day and my conclusion was that yes it does needlessly complicate things... some of the time. I think it depends on who it is. I've seen guys asking questions on /r/asktrp that are absolutely unnecessary. It's like they've got redpill colored glasses on 24/7 and overanalyze every little detail to the point of obsession.

"What does it mean when a girl says hey with three yyy's instead of two yy's?" I've seen questions as mundane as that before and it's like, what the fuck are you talking about, just text her back!

fiat_lux_ · 2014-07-04T22:31:03+00:00

From a practical perspective, sure sometimes it's better not to think too hard while acting.

However, when it comes to discussions on the topic, I think it's fine to dwell on things. I actually don't like the common bp response of "It's too complex."

It's used as a conversation killer most often. Too complex. Better not to talk about it... ^{Or you're a bitter virgin!!} It's the same implication made by the comic. I can't help but wonder if it's an indirect promotion of lazy thinking.

gepeg-libre · 2014-07-04T23:22:23+00:00

Uh, yes? It's like they have this mind-blowing revelation that women aren't perfect, that their lives shouldn't revolve around women, and that nobody really thinks pushovers are sexy... and then suddenly all bets are off, and these super basic pieces of common sense that everyone else has already figured out get turned into the basis of this bizarro world Baroque (ie, looks very complicated and impressive but is functionally useless) philosophy... As if their previous inability to consider that women might just be, like, other people, with faults and stuff, has to have been the result of some kind of monstrous, conspiratorial cultural brainwashing instead of just them being kind of dumb and naive, and the elaboration of entire new categories of cultural technologies are warranted to overcome this mystifying question of how to deal with women.

Sad 'n silly is what it is!

AshleyYakeley · 2014-07-04T23:31:47+00:00

Just get out there and be yourself, then?

[deleted] · 2014-07-04T22:06:34+00:00

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roe_ · 2014-07-04T23:27:35+00:00

Eh. Some people want to understand fourier transforms and perceptual audio coding, some people just want to listen to MP3s.

Thing is, progress depends on the first group.

the-friendzoner · 2014-07-05T03:30:21+00:00

I think what happens a lot of the time is there's too much emphasis on over thinking. Both sides do this. "Is it too early to text him back?" Or "If I wait until the 3rd date to have sex, he won't think I'm easy, but have to wait another date."

We doubt ourselves too much, and when we act it's no longer organic to our personality because we just did exactly the opposite of what we wanted.

[deleted] · 2014-07-05T15:01:20+00:00

Not exactly.

Like that comic, you cant just say identify fellow human beings then badabing badaboom you're in a relationship.

I'm not exactly TRp anymore but, simply put, TRP usually tells you what works and why it works without all the ambiguity of conventional dating.

I honstly don't think anything in TRP is complicated,

Lift

dress well

Don't be a pushover

Always be in control

They just say it over and over in many different ways.

InfoSponger · 2014-07-05T15:09:21+00:00

is there a danger of getting bogged down in the minutiae?

Minutiae? Huh? There are RARE instances when something that could be considered minutiae will be a stumbling block..... what is bigger? Detritus? No... even THAT is too small.....ummmmm...... TRASH? Nope... still too big... stuff? Mostly.... but in the end.... they get bogged down in FACTS.

FACTS are what bogs them down, by the time they have examined minutiae they have already become very lonely and angry people with internet anonymity and a soapbox from which to spew it.

masterrod · 2014-07-04T21:58:53+00:00

I feel like sometimes TRP can really read too much into some things, to put it lightly.

GaiusScaevolus · 2014-07-04T23:16:18+00:00

Some people, especially newbies, seem to have a tendency to circle the square when talking about certain things. As some in this thread have already alluded to, I don't think this is an exclusively TRP problem. Rather, I think it is a human flaw.

I would also rather have an over complicated set of instructions then an overly simplistic set. We should all at least be able to agree that " identify fellow human being" over simplifies the issue, and that's the problem.

[deleted] · 2014-07-04T22:34:00+00:00

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[deleted] · 2014-07-05T00:37:02+00:00

Absolutely. And I'm sure others have already picked up in this but if you really need to read that far into social interaction just to talk to half the population you're probably on the autism spectrum.

masterrod · 2014-07-05T14:46:41+00:00

No RP, and PUA don't complicate anything.

The goal of both is to provide followers with a foundation for action. The key is ACTION. And in non-success followers can refer to text, or friends to help them. Just like going to to a coach after a loss.

Incidentally, one problem with would be PUAs is exactly what this comic describes, reading too much.

asd1100 · 2014-07-05T22:18:59+00:00

TRP is not PU, PU teaches you to mimic the behavior of a well ajusted human(even women can learn to entertain women by interanlising some pick up)

TRP's purpose is you become a well adjusted human male: and that presumes you be an ass when the situation calls for it.

ExpendableOne · 2014-07-09T15:46:59+00:00

Ignoring how misrepresentative, ignorant and offensive that comic is... if "keeping it simple", "being yourself" and acknowledging women as being just another human being was an effective way of life for men, or for sexual or romantic success/fulfilment, there probably wouldn't really such a thing as /r/theredpill. There are a lot of gender/social issues that play into this too, many of which are entirely perpetuated or enforced by women, and most men don't really have it that easy. The "keep it simple" is, in of itself, an over-simplification of the situation at hand, and the idea that just being yourself will result in men just finding a woman who loves and appreciates them for who they are is a fantasy. This kind of advice is something that works for women, because they have men coming to them and catering to their desires, expectations and entitlements but it does not work for the average man. For some men, "just be yourself" will get them nowhere despite how nice, loving, successful, well-dressed and muscular/athletic they are because the personality traits/views they hold are not valued in men(specifically).

Yes, there's certainly people who try to absorb or apply too much or too fast, and it ends up bogging them down or makes them seem manipulative. That's the extreme. Most people who struggle with women still understand that there's a balance. The idea that these men don't view women as people though, or that men who are naturally successful with women don't have negative/objectifying views on women, is also a complete fallacy. There are too many stories of men who treat women as people first and sexual interests second, and who ended up being penalized, desexualized, objectified, insulted or belittled for it, or simply outmatched or outperformed by other guys who treated those same women as sexual objects first and people second(if at all).

AFormidableContender · 2014-07-10T06:01:04+00:00

What I interpret from this comic:

Either an attractive man who's never had a problem getting women either drew or concepted this, or a woman who thinks sexual attraction is random and effortless drew or concepted this.

It literally says nothing more to me, not because I refuse to believe my "side" is wrong, but because it completely ignores, and does a discervice even to BluePill ideology.

It's complete and total disingenuousness.

[deleted] · 2014-07-05T08:54:00+00:00

Some people like to over complicate things in order that they don't have to take action.

"Walk up and talk to her? Oh if only it was that easy my friend, I'm still only on chapter 3 of The Blueprint Decoded and haven't yet begun to read up my Roosh elderly openers"

RedPill4LYF · 2014-07-05T20:53:38+00:00

TRP can be boiled down to one question. Is she behaving rationally?

If yes, proceed. If no, walk away.

stats135 · 2014-07-05T00:33:37+00:00

The way I see it, The problem with guy A is not that he overcomplicated the process. His problem was not taking action. We can take a minute to think about Guy B. After the initial conversation in the comic panel, what will happen to him if he does nothing else? he will probably have a dance with the girl, but he will not get laid. To actually get laid, he will probably have to put Guy A's thought (encourage alcohol consumption, find a secluded place where his sexual advances are more likely to succeed, etc) into action after the dance.

If you remove the gibberish writing style for Guy A that exist solely for humour (parody) purposes, Guy A is actually on the money. What was wrong was not his thought process, but his lack of action. This is a mistake addressed many times in the PUA and TRP to their newer members. Human interactions are complicated, and most people will not get it absolutely right in every interaction. Taking the best course of action is good, but the act of taking action is what is the most important. In short, I thing that PUA and TRP advices are complicated, but not overtly so.

Title	Does TRP and PUA over-complicate things?
Author	myfriendscantknow
Upvotes	8
Comments	43
Date	July 4, 2014 9:56 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/29uvjz/does_trp_and_pua_overcomplicate_things/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-trp-and-pua-over-complicate-things.285378 https://theredarchive.com/post/285378

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