The Red Pill: Is it what they say, or how they say it?

whenifeellikeit · 2014-02-28T02:40:51+00:00

It's both. It's because TRP is all about one sex manipulating the other. Remember that stupid book "The Rules" that came out a decade or so ago? It's essentially a female-superior version of TRP. And it's just as offensive, because it pits one sex against the other in constant battle, espousing manipulative tactics in order to reach one's goal. In the case of "The Rules", the goal is to get a husband. In TRP's case, it's to have sex with many women who worship you, or, if you're going to settle for one woman, to constantly maintain an upper hand in the relationship by using mind-games. Each of them (TRP and The Rules) is equally reprehensible because it reduces the opposite sex to something inferior, but utilitarian. It doesn't matter how it's phrased, the very ideas are offensive. TRP's choice of lingo just elevates it from merely offensive to truly nauseating.

foxmulders · 2014-02-28T02:14:07+00:00

Both. TRP is offensive to me whether the words used are more friendly or not. I still don't like the whole idea even when the language being used is more ~pleasant~.

GuildedCasket · 2014-02-28T17:06:53+00:00

That article? No, I don't find it really offensive (I do find it wrong, but I'll get into that), but the parallel TRP ideas it espouses are not the part of TRP that bother me. TRP bothers me because of the absolutism that many of its members couch, its reliance on shaky evolutionary psychology to the exclusion of all other sexual theories (c'mon guys, that's so 1980s-early 2000s, do you even know any of the behaviorist/cognitive/evenpsychoanalyticifwemustgothere theories that provide alternate explanations to the evolutionary POV?), and its disrespect towards women (and men too!). "Hamsters", the fact that women are not loyal, that they are incapable of love, etc., all while telling men they need to have money and sexiness and power to be valued by any women, that their feminine side is wrong and destructive. Granted, not endorsed by all of TRP, but nothing is uniformly endorsed by all of TRP, and I see these ideas quite often and in almost every thread I go into in r/theredpill. None of those ideas are espoused by that article. It was just basically saying the same old same old "women like adventure and spice and mystique!" So, no, not offensive.

I reject their dichotomy, however. My partner has gone on midnight runs to get me soup and medicine when I'm sick, gets me food when I'm tired, is wonderfully gracious when I need help with something, is kind and gentle and loving. He cuddles me and kisses my forehead and constantly tells me he loves me. He's always helping bolster my self esteem, complimenting me when needed, telling me how attractive he finds me.

At the same time, he still has a darker edge when he (or I) wants it, being rough and passionate and hot. He is the husband (beta) at the right times, and the boyfriend (alpha) at the right times. We keep that spark, that danger, going through our kinks and unique relationship structure, not through techniques like Dread Game and Captain/First Mate, which TRP often seems to think is the only way to make a relationship successful. He is still a loving, caring person who conforms to all of the "husband" stereotypes. And he conforms to all the "boyfriend/alpha" stereotypes. When the time is appropriate. There are plenty of other ways to keep the spark other than your partner becoming the constant, unquestioned dominant in the relationship.

Husseinstatue · 2014-02-27T23:47:00+00:00

Look at this. It's an extensive debate on how BP thinks RP language usage is inherently negative.

GayLubeOil · 2014-02-28T11:00:17+00:00

Whenever a person says that they are offended by something they make the assumption that other people care about their emotional state. In person, this makes sense because human beings have a certain level of empathy for those around them. On the internet, no one knows who anyone else is, and in general no one gives a fuck. What do I care if I offend some 23 year old tumblr activist? Why should I care about the emotional state of someone who has no bearing on my life? No one cares how you feel about TRP if if you're offended or not. If looking at dead babies makes you upset stop looking at dead babies. There will always be dead babies. There will always be an anti-feminist backlash. This is how the world works. There is no need to be upset.

l_lecrup · 2014-03-01T08:34:47+00:00

The language they use (plates, frame, etc.) are indicative of their attitude. They dehumanise women (as so many perceived enemies have been demonised throughout history) and the very process of relationships.

But at the core of the red pill is some fundamental beliefs about the differences between men and women that just aren't supported by evidence. They rarely bother to even make an attempt to substantiate these claims, and when they do it's anecdotal or it's a link to another article with no evidence or references.

RedBackJumpingSpider · 2014-03-03T21:19:31+00:00

It doesn't matter how one says something, only what one says. I couldn't give a rat's ass how TRP says what they say. To be honest, flowery language used by anyone only seems like it's obscuring the truth. I don't even like a lot of popular poetry because it's just dressed-up versions of ideas that make no sense. TRP is like hate poetry. If they used real terms instead of "solipsistic" and "hamster" and "the Wall" there would probably not be as many followers since they would not have a channel for their emotions anymore, only ideas that do not have good explanations that have been written. They could have good explanations, but they haven't been written.

Also, saying something differently isn't always possible without saying a different thing. Even synonyms tend to have different meanings.

fasterfind · 2014-03-04T04:38:06+00:00

One is better off learning though professional material, from people with proven results and proven expertise.

My problem with TRP is that there's a wholesale lack of evidence and proper research. People who have done zero research act with authority. It's a recipe for disaster and harmful misinformation.

KittyHamilton · 2014-03-04T17:38:35+00:00

Both.

Really, most of the RP ideas have a mere grain of truth, which is then wildly exaggerated.

RoadieTrippin · 2014-02-28T02:39:11+00:00

Simply put, yes.

I only speak in anecdotal truth, and widely known facts. But i am a VERY offensive guy. I purposely speak bluntly and sharply. I could make a person claim 2+2=5 just by making them hate me during the course of my explanation saying it equals 4.

rulenumber303 · 2014-02-28T02:06:40+00:00

There are damaged men in the world who enjoy being mean to women for its own sake. A lot of those men flock to the red pill because the red pill contains a few hard truths that can be framed in rather unkind ways. Women already have some quite anti-male parts of feminism to talk from if they want to be unkind to men, so not a lot of women have taken the time to work out and express an anti-male reframing of the red pill yet. I'm sure it is possible though.

Title	The Red Pill: Is it what they say, or how they say it?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	11
Comments	76
Date	February 27, 2014 11:37 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1z4qyo/the_red_pill_is_it_what_they_say_or_how_they_say/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-red-pill-is-it-what-they-say-or-how-they-say.286148 https://theredarchive.com/post/286148

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