Sub-Communication With The Wife

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October 24, 2019

I've been focusing on the idea of Frame lately, and how frames interact during conversations or disputes. Obviously, the process of unplugging involves working through the phases, which hopefully most of us have read about. We begin to STFU in response to shit tests. As we build this necessary detachment from the emotional states of others, we can find ourselves effortlessly using AA and AM. <-- (This post lays out the natural STFU-to-AA progression very nicely.)

These strategies allow us to stop DEERing. Here's one of my favorite lines from this foundational text (bolding mine):

By committing the sin of explaining yourself to a woman, you instantly throw her into the role of authority. You give her the sub-communicative position of approving or disapproving your decision, and squander your credibility.

This is the definition of Operating in Her Frame. This quote resonates so deeply because a lot of us feel like we've known this all along, but never saw it stated plainly. But it got me wondering... are there other ways that we might be giving away this "sub-communicative position" of authority?

In my own marriage, I have noticed my wife's tendency to obliviously drop throwaway remarks into interactions that hint at the expression of a power dynamic, or her being in the position of approving/disapproving decisions, without any kind of shit test being involved whatsoever. An example:

Me: Hey, I'm going to the pharmacy to pick up [our son]'s prescription. Be back in a bit.

Her: Okay, that's fine.

As if I was asking for, or needing her sign-off on this. Another example:

Me: *sits down on the couch, grabs the TV remote*

Her: *just now walking into the room, playing on her phone* You can change it to whatever, I don't care.

As if I needed her approval, or as if she was even paying attention to the TV in the first place.

I usually A&A these moments with an over the top mocking and sarcastic, "Oh, thank you very much for your permission!" But it makes me think there must be other ways this kind of sub-communication is happening that I haven't noticed before. She is strongly Type A, so it may simply be her default method of communicating with everyone. But it could also be an indication of where she believes the power lies in our relationship, whether that's real or imagined.

Has anyone else experienced this? If so, how did you deal with it?

EDIT: to be clear, these moments don't bother, perturb, or otherwise have any effect on my actions or emotional state. These are just observations, and I'm simply curious about sub-communicative behavior in these sorts of power-exchange relationships.

Post Information
Title Sub-Communication With The Wife
Author AnyHead
Upvotes 26
Comments 31
Date 24 October 2019 05:50 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
A&Aframeshit testthe red pill

[–]Hornyonion13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

Actually your observation is spot on. Women look at things purely from their perspective. They never look at the big picture. It is as if everything has to do with them, even things that are not related to them or simply are random.

So your wife's default mode when entering the room is not that you continously made a decision for that channel. It is "how am I affected from this?" or "what is my opinion/action to be taken?". Subsequently, she needs to somehow show that she is "in control" of the situation, so she kind of gives you permission to do what you already have been doing.

Stemming from that subconscious need to always be in control and fro the fact that every woman is the leading actor in her life film, you can explain other behaviors as well:

1) Women are terrible at driving. In order to behave appropriately when driving you need to place yourself in the greater scheme of things. You are part of a system and every part of the system (the cars around you, pedestrians, traffic lights etc) move with you. They don't move according to what you do but they have their own purpose. Women do not take all this in consideration. So they light say "I wanted to turn so I turned. The other car should have seen me". Or "I got scared by this fast approaching car so I slowed down". Again, no thought about the greater context.

2) Women are terrible at arranging group activities. In order to do that you need to combine the schedules of different people and possibly make compromises about the time, location or activity to be done. But they don't want that because that means you partly give away control. So you have the case where some girl friends say that they would like to arrange something as a group but it NEVER gets organized.

3) As a man, women expect you to have an opinion about EVERYTHING. Even for things that are not important. If you don't, then you "lack initiative, you are plain vanilla etc". Having opinion means influencing decisions which means more control of our surrounding environment. For them it is natural, for us it is a learned activity. And of course, an answer such as "that's fine" is not enough.

[–]AnyHead[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for this, looking at this stuff with female solipsism in mind helps me piece a lot of these concepts together.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Oh, thank you very much for your permission!"

Nope. You give too many fucks. I wish there was a book about giving less fucks

[–]Goobergus_Gubbins0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

There is. Mark mansen.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I forgot to use the sarcasm font

[–]2ndalRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

someone else only has the power you give them

in being perturbed by her way of communicating, you are giving her the power to affect your emotions with her words (also called losing frame)

this can be solved by not giving her the power to affect your emotions with her words (also called having frame)

practically speaking we call this "not giving a fuck" around these parts

importantly: "not giving a fuck" does not equal "getting fucking mad about it but pretending you're not" it means letting her words and actions slide off you like hot butter on a warm dick and going about your marry way

[–]ChokingDownRPRed Beret11 points12 points  (6 children) | Copy

"that's fine" is just something people say. If you don't like that she says it, you either need to exit her frame (if this bothers you, you're clearly in her frame) or AA/AM, but go way over the top with "thank you your majesty for allowing me this excursion, perhaps when I return, I shall tap thy royal ass m'lady" smack her ass, curtsy out the door and don't give her comments a second thought.

Either way, you care too fucking much about this

[–]AnyHead[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Appreciate the response. I could definitely be overanalyzing here. But to reiterate - I just recently began noticing it, and that's likely because I've been in the weeds of sidebar material which is designed to draw newbies' attention to this kind of stuff. Not some kind of long-running issue for me.

And I appreciate the AA example, which is an extended version of what I've been doing. But I'm wondering how putting even more effort into my AA is a way to stop caring "too fucking much" about "just something people say." Still, I enjoyed the visual.

[–]ChokingDownRPRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

See so_woke_the_wookie's response below. In my example, I would be having fun for my own sake, she's not affecting how I feel, I laugh at the thought of a high value man like me possibly needing anyone's permission. It's absurd.

In your response, you're mad at her, you probably say it with a shitty tone that lets her know that her words...the words of a woman have you rattled and feeling defensive.

It's not what's said, it's who says it and how it's said that matters.

[–]AnyHead[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sure, I definitely get your point. Tone and expressions obviously doesn't come across via posting like this, (and you have no reason to take my word for it and instead assume that I obliviously convey butthurt-edness) but my response is that of sarcastic humor that gets a giggle out of her. It's clear for a split second she's thinking, "oh! yeah... that was kinda silly of me."

Meanwhile I'm already out the door or whatever. It's not any kind of hangup for me. I'm just interested in talking about what, if any, psychology may be at play.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha, love it. It's amazing how the absurdity of your reply clears away the butthurt that leaks in OP's:

"Oh, thank you very much for your permission!"

[–]FoxShitNasty833 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Bonus points for use of ye old English

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

And a fedora, m'lady.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Give less fucks about what she says / doesn't say / communicates / doesn't communicate.

The only question you should have about your wife is "when is the last time she begged me for my cock?".

The rest is just fluff.

Decent post for this sub though. Have an upvote.

[–]Balls_Wellington_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My wife does this too. I'll say something like "I'll be in the garage" and she goes "yeah, go ahead."

Honestly it is probably a holdover from my previous beta behavior. It's also something I don't worry about.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Use those weapons too, man. Apply your frame. I judge her all the time, throw subtle negs, use disqualification. It’s game 101.

Then you get stuff like “have I been good enough or will you spank me?” instead.

[–]hack3geRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I was just looking back at our conversations the other day from like 16 months ago and fuck it’s scary to see the shit I wrote to you. You told me the same shit and I just couldn’t believe it.

The concept of my wife begging me to fuck her face when she wouldn’t even want me to touch her wasn’t even something I could fathom and yet here we are.

Fuck man it was a trip.

[–]SepeanRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, for the new guys, and the guys half-assing it, the way girls react when you really amp up the alpha, it seems unreal.

[–]throwawaybpdnpd1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don’t pay attention to what she says, watch what she does instead

[–]CarelessBowler50 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy


"Oh, good. Can I get the permission slip?"

"Any channel I want? Which one is Playboy on these days."

Cheeky grin. Eye contact. Let her connect the dots.

[–]arm_candy1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

The first sounds butthurt. The second sounds pathetic.

Your really shouldn’t care about this crap, but if you’re going to AA, do it better than this.

[–]baldymcgee9192 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

The tone and speed of what you're saying dictates whether it sounds butthurt or not. If it's rushed and high pitched it makes you sound like a bitch, low toned and condescending is what you're aiming for.

[–]arm_candy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So worst case you sound like a butthurt bitch and best case you sound like a butthurt asshole.

If AA makes you sound like a condescending prick, you’re doing it wrong.

[–]NightFire450 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This...these are all passive aggressive.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I'm gonna go with u/ChokingDownRP as the template here. I'd drop something like your:

"Oh, good. Can I get the permission slip?"

But, when I do it it feels off. Too fast. Kinda knee jerkish. The longer form and theatre of CDR's reply means you have to sit in the pocket and demo IDGAF and wit at the same time. There shorter ones are better than going mute and I use them but I know what and why I am aiming for now.

[–]arm_candy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think going mute is preferable to these short “AA” responses. Why do you care if she “gives permission” for something you were going to do anyway? Bothering to retort at all is more likely to sound annoyed/butthurt than anything. Especially if you’re doing it every time.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Solid point.

[–]yes_kid0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm experiencing this right now.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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