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AotearoaCanuck
[–]cosmic-rebirthFDS Newbie110 points111 points112 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Plus race!
[–]Davina33FDS Apprentice35 points36 points37 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes!
[–]celestialpiFDS Newbie11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yep. Came here to comment this
[–]Davina33FDS Apprentice84 points85 points86 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
God forbid you are also black as well as a woman too. If you even just say no then you're seen as aggressive.
[–]royaldetourFDS Newbie56 points57 points58 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ugh. It is true and such bullshit.
[–]ardiana_hautmannFDS Newbie19 points20 points21 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I‘ve been called my entire life aggressive, fierce, rude by guys. To the point where I started doubting on myself, now whenever I speak something I have to think twice if my voice is being high.
[–]NonRedittorFDS Newbie30 points31 points32 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Plus being assertive doesnt mean rude... You can impose your boundaries firmly and call someone on their bullshit and still be classy about it, if Mr Scrote can't take it then it's too bad ✌
[–]seraphinelysionFDS Apprentice29 points30 points31 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Question for you ladies. Do women view other women as aggressive when they are being assertive? From your own experience, how do you feel about women who are assertive?
[–]pickmieshaexorcistFDS Apprentice43 points44 points45 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’ve encountered this as I’ve worked in mostly offices my adult life. I don’t use a lot of speech qualifiers in my emails, I’m forthright in my speech. I also refuse to be put on cleanup/potluck duty if the men in the office aren’t expected to do it. I’ve gotten side-eye from some women and the impression they think I’m lazy or disagreeable. With the more receptive ones, I’ll just ask them point-blank: “Why are YOU always cleaning the coffee pot and kitchen, Beth? How come Pete and Andy never do it? Hmmm??” Usually she doesn’t have an answer but it does get her thinking about things.
[–]Adventurous_Rise_307FDS Newbie19 points20 points21 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So, not an answer to your question, but when men get assertive, I compute it as aggressive. Even when women are assertive, in most cases, we are a LOT nicer and less aggressive in our assertiveness than men are. If a man says you’re being aggressive bc you’re being assertive, I guarantee it’s bc you’re asserting yourself against him, and you’re not actually being aggressive.
[–]AotearoaCanuckFDS Disciple[S] 38 points39 points40 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think it depends on the situation but as an assertive woman myself, I hate seeing women get walked all over. So when I see women standing up for themselves and being assertive, I usually cheer for them in my head. I think too many of us think we are being rude if we ask for what we want. Even if it’s just in a restaurant where the waiter brings us cold or poorly cooked food.
[–]PasdepromessesFDS Disciple14 points15 points16 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, I don’t. I like assertive women.
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Overall, no. However, I have witnessed white women feel threatened many times when I or other WOC speak up in lectures in my department, at networking events, and in board of directors working groups. They run the gamut from shocked expressions, eyerolling, ignoring the speaker in favour of being on their phone/laptop/convo w another WW, leaving the room altogether, etc.
I find it empowering to see fellow women be assertive, to the extent where those other women are not abusing their social capital at the expense of more marginalized women.
[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm not sure where the reply to my comment went from a fellow group member, but to answer your question that I was able to see:
I obviously hit a nerve, seeing as there were other comments pointing out how race affects what is considered "aggressive" or "assertive". And I'm not feeling particularly apologetic about it either because it's a fact of life. 🤷♀️
White women call the cops on us when we don't "act right", and leverage white patriarchal standards of performance and beauty to climb over us at work/in community, etc. I'm not saying it's even happening intentionally or with awareness. Just something we can work on together so that we are in further solidarity against the patriarchy.
[–]wedonthavetobeishtarFDS Newbie4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As a white woman, I agree! Not sure why someone got triggered by your comment, because those biases are just a fact. I see women being sexist against other women and white women / white men being racist in the workplace all the time.
[–]wedonthavetobeishtarFDS Newbie2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I like women who are assertive.
I have seen women not respond well to assertiveness from other women in the workplace due to internalized sexism.
Some women’s sexism can be sharper than benignly sexist men’s because it can be rooted in deeper insecurities.
Yes, not all women. But more than I would like.
[–]DashOfParsleyFDS Newbie3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
As soon as a woman won't tolerate bullshit and knows what she wants she's labeled as bitchy and bossy, it irritates me to no end
[–]AotearoaCanuckFDS Disciple[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly!
[–]NovemberinthechairFDS Apprentice1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Your sex.
[–]Sabina33211Throwaway Account2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
When I swear online with a boy username no one gives a sht but if I swear with girl username everyone is like she just said a swear word omg!!!!
[–]AotearoaCanuckFDS Disciple[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Interesting
[+]so_crat_icFDS Newbie[🍰] -8 points-7 points-6 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
disagree. I studied this for years because of some narcissists in the family. and while women are less likely to use dominance and intimidation, they can be quite toxic in the realm of passive aggression or "hooking people" where they appear helpless under the assumption someone will step in.
passive aggression is ALSO a form of aggression in that it's the opposite of assertiveness. and assertiveness is actually communicating your needs and expectations. but also accepting "no" as an answer. which does not come naturally to everyone. regardless of their gender.
[–]BabyGothQFDS Newbie2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
When is the last time you’ve heard someone describe a man as passive agressive?
[–]so_crat_icFDS Newbie[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
frequently actually.. that is the textbook behavior of a covert narcissist. they are bitter that people don't think they're great. so they are prone to lots of sarcasm. but my narcissist in particular he is very sarcastic, but can get adrenaline infused panic attacks that make him quite aggressive indeed!
[–]BabyGothQFDS Newbie2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
But people called him passive aggressive?
I’m not asking whether men are passive aggressive, I know they are. But that’s not language I’ve heard being used for men unless it’s from an extremely fed up woman.
[–]so_crat_icFDS Newbie[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
in psychology, you don't have to be fed up to recognize the "unhealthy" triangles as people call them.
Unhealthy: aggressive, victim, rescuer
Healthy: assertive, opportunity to learn, coach
and there are many images online comparing these. in these diagrams, passive aggression falls into normal aggression. it's unhealthy. it's angry. and it's demanding. even if it doesn't include violence or intimidation
[–]BabyGothQFDS Newbie1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Again, I’m not saying men aren’t passive aggressive. I’m not talking about acknowledging it or “recognizing” it. I’m saying does society call men out on it. In my experience, no.
[–]so_crat_icFDS Newbie[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
oh gotcha..yeah I'm hoping people realize it's a real problem.
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[–]cosmic-rebirthFDS Newbie110 points111 points112 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Davina33FDS Apprentice35 points36 points37 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]celestialpiFDS Newbie11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Davina33FDS Apprentice84 points85 points86 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]royaldetourFDS Newbie56 points57 points58 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ardiana_hautmannFDS Newbie19 points20 points21 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]NonRedittorFDS Newbie30 points31 points32 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]seraphinelysionFDS Apprentice29 points30 points31 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]pickmieshaexorcistFDS Apprentice43 points44 points45 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Adventurous_Rise_307FDS Newbie19 points20 points21 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AotearoaCanuckFDS Disciple[S] 38 points39 points40 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PasdepromessesFDS Disciple14 points15 points16 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]wedonthavetobeishtarFDS Newbie4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]DashOfParsleyFDS Newbie3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]NovemberinthechairFDS Apprentice1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Sabina33211Throwaway Account2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AotearoaCanuckFDS Disciple[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]so_crat_icFDS Newbie[🍰] -8 points-7 points-6 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]BabyGothQFDS Newbie2 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]so_crat_icFDS Newbie[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
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[–]so_crat_icFDS Newbie[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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