"When female privilege backfires..." This completely destroys feminism's narrative even in the past, even in developing countries, even in Islamic countries. F**K
"Are you seriously arguing X?" is not a counter-argument to X.
It's clear that you think you are responding to a ridiculous argument. But just pointing out how ridiculous you think the argument is does absolutely nothing to refute it. If you think it's so ridiculous, try to argue against it.
What you are doing is a huge part of the problem. Society decides that something must be the case, for whatever reason. And from that point on, anyone who tries to argue against it, no matter how strong the argument, no matter how good the evidence, is met with, "Are you seriously arguing X?"
It's shitty, and it's counter-productive. If his argument is anywhere near as ridiculous and shitty as you are treating it, you should have no problem forming a counter-argument. But I suspect that you can't.
It's also important to note that you can point out this kind of balance without endorsing it.
For instance, people will frequently bring up how a woman used to have to get her husband's permission in order to get a bank loan. They bring this up as evidence that we live in a patriarchy which oppresses women. But they tend to forget (or ignore) that the reason for this was that the man was the one on the hook if the loan defaulted. So the lack of privilege to get a loan on one's own was balanced by the lack of responsibility to pay the loan back or else face the consequences.
So it's important to argue that last bit, that there was balance to it. That it wasn't just oppression. It was a trade-off of privilege and responsibility. That being said, acknowledging that balance doesn't mean endorsing it. Because I obviously think it's better for anyone, regardless of gender, to be able to get a loan on their own, and be personally on the hook for it. So I think it's better now than it was then. But it's still important to recognize both halves of the equation which were different back then, and how it, in its own way, had a balance to it.
The Islam stuff seems similar. We can and should acknowledge these sorts of balancing factors. That you can't just focus on the factors which disadvantage women without also acknowledging the factors which are deliberately in place to balance them out. But it's important also to recognize that just because something is balanced, that doesn't mean we are endorsing it. I feel like that's a common trap feminists would respond with. We might point out that those disadvantages are part of a balanced system, where yes, women have fewer privileges, but that's because they have almost no responsibility. And the response a feminist would immediately have is to assume we are saying that such a system is what we should strive for in our society. Which is obviously not the case.
As a well knowledgeable Muslim (although fairy irreligious)who’s been traveling throughout his life, women are usually the power yielding force behind every family. I’ve heard of my father growing up in poverty and starvation because of the woman my grandfather married after my grandmothers death, she would manage the money he earned abroad... my mom had more say than anyone in my immediate family and forced my dad to sponsor her sister’s education in london when we ourselves were not well off to begin with at the time. When a woman in Muslim household makes up her mind, there’s no changing it. I was a kid and I didn’t like her sister from the beginning, I told her she would be betrayed by everyone’s he’s fighting for, she didn’t listen. Years later she regrets what she did. Tbh Islam’s soft roles with huge power for women and high responsibilities with minimal rights for men is one of the reason that turned me from the religion.
It kind of mostly is though.. most of what you guys do is just shit on women and feminists. Nothing pertaining to mens rights should be incompatible with feminism, but you choose to constantly attack them over and over.
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"Are you seriously arguing X?" is not a counter-argument to X.
It's clear that you think you are responding to a ridiculous argument. But just pointing out how ridiculous you think the argument is does absolutely nothing to refute it. If you think it's so ridiculous, try to argue against it.
What you are doing is a huge part of the problem. Society decides that something must be the case, for whatever reason. And from that point on, anyone who tries to argue against it, no matter how strong the argument, no matter how good the evidence, is met with, "Are you seriously arguing X?"
It's shitty, and it's counter-productive. If his argument is anywhere near as ridiculous and shitty as you are treating it, you should have no problem forming a counter-argument. But I suspect that you can't.
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It's also important to note that you can point out this kind of balance without endorsing it.
For instance, people will frequently bring up how a woman used to have to get her husband's permission in order to get a bank loan. They bring this up as evidence that we live in a patriarchy which oppresses women. But they tend to forget (or ignore) that the reason for this was that the man was the one on the hook if the loan defaulted. So the lack of privilege to get a loan on one's own was balanced by the lack of responsibility to pay the loan back or else face the consequences.
So it's important to argue that last bit, that there was balance to it. That it wasn't just oppression. It was a trade-off of privilege and responsibility. That being said, acknowledging that balance doesn't mean endorsing it. Because I obviously think it's better for anyone, regardless of gender, to be able to get a loan on their own, and be personally on the hook for it. So I think it's better now than it was then. But it's still important to recognize both halves of the equation which were different back then, and how it, in its own way, had a balance to it.
The Islam stuff seems similar. We can and should acknowledge these sorts of balancing factors. That you can't just focus on the factors which disadvantage women without also acknowledging the factors which are deliberately in place to balance them out. But it's important also to recognize that just because something is balanced, that doesn't mean we are endorsing it. I feel like that's a common trap feminists would respond with. We might point out that those disadvantages are part of a balanced system, where yes, women have fewer privileges, but that's because they have almost no responsibility. And the response a feminist would immediately have is to assume we are saying that such a system is what we should strive for in our society. Which is obviously not the case.
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As a well knowledgeable Muslim (although fairy irreligious)who’s been traveling throughout his life, women are usually the power yielding force behind every family. I’ve heard of my father growing up in poverty and starvation because of the woman my grandfather married after my grandmothers death, she would manage the money he earned abroad... my mom had more say than anyone in my immediate family and forced my dad to sponsor her sister’s education in london when we ourselves were not well off to begin with at the time. When a woman in Muslim household makes up her mind, there’s no changing it. I was a kid and I didn’t like her sister from the beginning, I told her she would be betrayed by everyone’s he’s fighting for, she didn’t listen. Years later she regrets what she did. Tbh Islam’s soft roles with huge power for women and high responsibilities with minimal rights for men is one of the reason that turned me from the religion.
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It kind of mostly is though.. most of what you guys do is just shit on women and feminists. Nothing pertaining to mens rights should be incompatible with feminism, but you choose to constantly attack them over and over.
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Incels mad
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Being anti feminism does not mean being anti woman.
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