Why do we spend so much time talking about feminism?

Oncefa2 · 2020-05-11T18:07:08+00:00

"If feminism is for women, why do they talk about men so much?"

Shouldn't it be about teaching women to be strong and independent? Why do they need men for that? They should be building women up instead of tearing men down.

jeff_the_nurse · 2020-05-11T22:54:21+00:00

Largely because feminism as a movement has worked to attack men’s issues and halt any effort we make at fixing them. That’s my take, anyway.

Lethn · 2020-05-11T22:18:58+00:00

The whole premise of the question is based on a complete ignorance of what not only MRAs discuss generally as issues but also the people asking this question know nothing about feminists themselves. The amount of times I have seen people come on here asking things like that has largely been because they have no idea what feminists actually do in the background especially when it comes to political lobbying.

So as a result of that, they read from the feminists "MRAs bad, misogynists hurr durr" and then they come over here and don't know what to do with themselves because they're fucking idiots who did zero research on us beforehand and thought they knew everything.

DepressiveVortex · 2020-05-11T20:05:06+00:00

So originally I went looking for a favourite old post that I shockingly can't find right now, sadly.

It talked about the various ways that feminists have fought against different initiatives over the years such as the presumption of equal shared custody in Australia, and so many other cases I wish I could list if I could find it!

But, while looking for it I did find this thread I previously hadn't seen by u/living_raven_24x7 which goes quite in depth doing a very similar thing, examining the history of feminism and critiquing it, making it clear that it doesn't seem like it's such a movement for equality after all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/bt6hfr/history_of_feminism_the_way_they_dont_want_us_to

Ody_ssey · 2020-05-11T19:31:04+00:00

Most of the issues men are facing today are created by feminism. Media and institutions cover up issues of 50% population. So in the eyes of public it looks only women are facing issues.

morerokk · 2020-05-12T12:34:57+00:00

Allow me to put it in an even more straightforward way.

MensRights is pro-men.
Feminism is responsible for numerous policies which hurt men.
Therefore, MensRights opposes feminism.

mellainadiba · 2020-05-12T04:15:58+00:00

We have inherited from gender traditionalism (and perhaps biology) a strong protective attitude towards women, and that is a major reason why we’re conscious of and attentive to women’s issues but not men’s. Feminism is seen as a rejection of gender roles and in many ways it is, but the elevation of women’s safety and well-being to an almost sacred status within feminism (e.g., “we must end violence against women” as if violence matters less when it happens to men) fits in well with traditionalist attitudes of “women are precious and we must protect them”. - gynocetrism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD3PqQfwgaY - real life example how the world lost its shit over 300 girls being kidnapped and was silent on how the group had actually kidnapped 10,000 boys and routinely burnt boys alive while allowing girls to away free

The standard view of gender equality is that it’s mostly or entirely about women and their issues. For example, see “An Act to establish Gender Equality Week” (only women’s issues mentioned) or the Globe and Mail article “Have we achieved gender equality? Nine Canadian women respond”. Academic feminism often uses particularly dramatic, one-sided language when talking about gender inequality—domination, oppression, and exploitation (for women) and entitlement, privilege, and power (for men).

There are plenty of important areas where men are doing worse than women. These include suicide, homelessness, incarceration, life expectancy, educational achievement, murder victimization (including police killings), hate crime victimization (based on e.g., sexual orientation or religion), stranger assault in general, separation from children after divorce, and addiction to various substances (including alcohol and opioids). Men also face various double standards (e.g., expressing sexual desire is creepy or dehumanizing but only when men do it), prejudices (e.g., gender profiling that usually happens beside racial profiling), and biases (e.g., lack of recognition of men as victims of domestic violence and sexual assault).

3.1 Women are much worse off, aren’t they? Look at politics and business.

The most commonly-cited fact for why women are much worse off is that they’re less common in the visible and desirable positions of prestige and power in the “ruling class”: politicians, business executives, media moguls, etc.

This disparity is real, but men are also more common in the undesirable and out-of-sight positions of marginalization in the “underclass” of society. George Orwell writes in his 1933 book Down and Out in Paris and London that one might expect the sexes to be balanced among the destitute, but “one can almost say that below a certain level society is entirely male”. This remains the case to a large extent. Men are disproportionately likely to be homeless, and the gender gap is larger for more severe types of homelessness.

A comprehensive report on homelessness in the United States (2018 Annual Homeless Assessment Report) found that males are a majority of the homeless population (60%), and an even larger majority of the unsheltered homeless (70%). In the United Kingdom, a report found that 86% of “rough sleepers” (unsheltered homeless) in Greater London were male (2019 Q2 CHAIN report). There appears to be a large disparity in homeless deaths too—counting John Doe and Jane Doe entries in the Toronto Homeless Memorialhas men making up 86% of homeless deaths (as of October 2019).

It’s not just homelessness. Men are overwhelmingly the ones to die on the job; the male workplace fatalities in Canada in one year (2005) were more than double the female workplace fatalities in the whole 12 year period of 1993-2005 (“Five Deaths a Day: Workplace Fatalities in Canada, 1993-2005” by Andrew Sharpe and Jill Hardt for the Centre for the Study of Living Standards). Men are also a substantial majority of prisoners (96% in England & Wales in 2013; see “Prison Population Statistics” from the British House of Commons Library), and they’re at the bottom of a 4-5 year life expectancy gap.

Minority men are especially common in the marginalized underclass. The New York Times gives the shocking statistic of 1.5 million “missing” black men in the United States, who are out of public life through incarceration, early death, etc. (It’s related to both their gender and their race. If it was only race, black women would be doing just as badly.)

The OECD Better Life Index gives us a relatively comprehensive appraisal of well-being between genders, using various metrics. Men’s and women’s scores are essentially the same, with disparities in certain categories (accessed January 2017).

3.2 Aren’t things like life expectancy and going to jail just personal choice?

Personal choices obviously matter. It’s hard to end up in jail or addicted to drugs without making at least one bad choice, but there’s way more to these issues.

Before specifics, note that if we can dismiss such issues as just being a result of personal choice then we’d also have to dismiss many women’s issues, especially related to employment, as just being personal choice as well. At least if we’re being consistent, although we’re predisposed not to be. As many feminists point out (also here), as a trend men are seen as active (doers) and women as passive (people who have things done to them). A less explored implication of this is that men’s failures tend to be seen just as personal failures, while women’s failures are more often seen as victimization.

Now let’s look at some reasons for men’s higher rates of incarceration. Men receive longer sentences and are more likely to be sentenced in the first place than women are (with legally relevant factors controlled for, like type of crime, severity, and criminal history). It might be one of “the best established facts regarding criminal justice outcomes” (2006 study). Social factors like stereotypes and pressure to provide also push men into crime. Upbringing matters too—there’s evidence (and another study) that lacking a father affects a boy’s likelihood of delinquency more than a girl’s.

And then the life expectancy gap. An article in The Daily Caller talks about less government attention for men’s health that was made worse by Obamacare. Obama’s healthcare reform bill introduced 7 new offices, committees, and programs for women, with just one for men: the Office of Indian Men’s Health, which focuses just on one sub-type of men (see list of entities created by Obamacare here—the source is partisan but it includes specific page/section numbers in the legislation). A 2010 Harvard Men’s Health Watcharticle mentions, in addition to biological factors, various social and behavioral factors: more work stress and hostility, less social support, more risky behavior, drugs and alcohol, less concern for their own health (which can be learned), and less access to healthcare (noting that men are less likely to have “health insurance and a regular source of health care”—obviously a U.S. context).

DamonSchultz997 · 2020-05-11T18:05:21+00:00

There are a multitude of reasons as to why it's talked about a lot. I'll just a few:

Media: The motion that only women are capable of being victims in a certain situation has been ingrained in our minds by the media.

Adding to the fact that on average a woman does get attacked/hurt more compared to men by opposite sexes which causes the masses to ignore men's problem.

Its those usual instances you hear everyday of rape/assault/murder that gets carried out by people who lack sense. It has created an agreement among masses and media that women are typically and logically the victim. Almost all the time. So they get listened to the most.

Compared to that... a women's crime against men are... at times... done in a way to damage them emotionally and hurt them in a way which cannot be provem in court. Its easier to prove physical torture than mental torture ya know?

People: The popularity of a certain topic/agenda mostly if not generally relies on the Vocal nature of the people broadcasting it and their sheer amount.

An average person would never hesitate when asked about how much women suffer and their issues. However the same person may not be as privy to his own issues as a man and the things he has to deal with cause A. He's gotten used to it and B. He considers that his issues are selfish and doesn't matter in that discussion.Therefore making his/men's issues less known in general.

Upbringings and Beliefs: This should be self-explanatory. However it's ignored a lot even if plays has a huge role on how a person perceives the world around it.

The type of people one talks to day to day... The teachings parents provide time to time... The exposure to certain ideas and cultures at an early age... And the relegious beliefs that tell them to do certain things and believe certain ideas.

These all effect considerably how one feels about women. every relegious inscriptions will speak of women being treated unfairly. A lot of movies depict the usual hero saving the heroine story. Everything seems very conflicting at first, But it always ends with...

"Its my responsibility to be of use to Women in general. Chivalry is a man's duty. After all, they do a lot for us"

That's the reason why... Feminism and women's problem in general is talked about a lot more in comparison to men's issues

rabel111 · 2020-05-12T00:01:39+00:00

So many of the injustices men face in modern society, the denial of services, the denial of empathy, the assumption of guilt, are the results of feminist initiatives. When feminists active campaign to silence men rights, and stop initiatives that appropriately address issues affecting men, then it is complete implausible that feminism will not be part of or the focus of many threads.

dontpet · 2020-05-13T10:13:13+00:00

I detest feminism. But I think it is largely a distraction from the larger challenge for men.

That challenge is the general indifference towards improving things for men. Our disposability.

If we could get past that feminism would collapse and men would thrive.

That's why I'm putting my focus on loving and celebrating men. International Men's Day is a nice time to put some genuine effort toward men.

Auntie_Hero · 2020-05-11T18:53:03+00:00

Sane reason Palestinians spend so much time talking about Israel.

DignifiedAlpaca · 2020-05-12T02:33:31+00:00

I know you probably get tired of hearing this, but:

Good mod.

freezingkiss · 2020-05-12T20:58:35+00:00

Cos y'all are obsessed. I see so little conversations on here that actually advance men's rights. You're as bad as 2x.

globalapplepie · 2020-05-11T17:44:10+00:00

That’s not what it’s about, I feel like men feel like way when women talk about how a large number of men they come in contact with have treated them as less than human.

But they are not trying to attack you in particular. I feel like saying your a “feminist” doesn’t make you a good person it doesn’t make you a real feminist either.

I really want us all to just LISTEN to each other’s feelings and struggles.

Title	Why do we spend so much time talking about feminism?
Author	goodmod
Upvotes	114
Comments	46
Date	May 11, 2020 5:21 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ghrxet/why_do_we_spend_so_much_time_talking_about/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-do-we-spend-so-much-time-talking-about.852767 https://theredarchive.com/post/852767

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