Mashable wants to redefine consent - "Hey Aziz Ansari defenders, saying 'no' is more complex than you think"

Derek1382 · 2018-01-15T17:56:16+00:00

For many women, uttering an explicit "no" is not as easy or straightforward as you might think.

She sucked his dick, twice. Not only could she not say no, she could also not stop her own body from performing the reasonably complex series of actions that make up fellatio? twice?

At what point can women reasonably be expected to have effective agency? can we expect them to blink twice as a signal? should we insert probes into their brains to measure activation potentials directly?

This statement doesn't take into account most women's overwhelming fear of what could follow that verbalised "no."

Right, so don't verbalize jack shit and walk out. Or at least don't suck his dick. Or can't women be expected to do anything at all to take charge of their own actions?

But why didn’t she leave?!” Because — and this is crucial— he kept telling her he was going to stop.

That literally does in no way make her unable to leave.

Fear of what, you might ask? I was afraid that if I said no, I would be further harmed, or even killed.

There is no reason why "Grace" would have had this fear. She herself says he was never physicalyly threatening. Or are we to assume that women are always afraid to be killed when they're alone with a man?

Because that is exactly what this article is driving to: women are always afraid of violence when they'are alone with a man. Hence, anything sexual they do with him, whether passively accepting sex acts or actively performing them; any consent that they give, even verbalized; anything at all can be deemed to be non-consensual because she says she felt afraid and thus couldn't say no, nor stop, nor refrain from any act, nor walk away.

That's what this particular subset of the movement is aiming for: the complete denial of any objectivity or standard for evaluating assault that is based in anything other than the unquestionable feelings of the purported victim. Because male violence is deemed to be an absolute threat, women's response to the perceived risk of violence is therefore absolutely unquestionable: even the most unreasonable and unexplainable actions must be understood and accepted as rational responses to the absolute threat that each and every man represents, regardless of the circumstances or the material facts.

JustHereForTheBacon · 2018-01-15T16:25:27+00:00

This is the kind of thing that guarantees that the pushback will come from women.

McFeely_Smackup · 2018-01-15T17:53:21+00:00

I never thought I'd have objective proof that I respect women more and think them more capable than the most outspoken feminists do.

I always thought women were adults, equally capable to men. This person apparently thinks women are children who never learned to use their words.

v574v · 2018-01-15T16:28:59+00:00

She wanted a relationship and he wanted sex. She was delusional about the relationship between them and her delusions prevented her from seeing that she was on a one night stand but as the night wore on... she understood that she had no chance of a relationship and left.

He's to blame for her delusion? He's to blame for her inability to convert him into her boyfriend instead of a one night lover? Her own ambition is not to blame?

alberc · 2018-01-15T15:22:03+00:00

Cool. Maybe we should go back to the age of Chaperones, because it's obvious rags like mashable don't believe that women have any agency of their own.

Oh, and archive link: https://archive.is/cZb3Y

Kyle_Fischer · 2018-01-15T21:02:30+00:00

You know. I realize that I am a victim of robbery. I asked a woman if she wanted to meet for dinner. We had a wonderful meal with a great discussion. She took a taxi, so she could drink a bunch of cocktails. I drove, so I had one beer. I was really into her. When the Server gave me the check, I asked her if she wanted to split the check down the middle, which I thought was a good deal because her drinks made what she ordered way more expensive. She took offense to it. And, after all those cocktails, she kind of showed me that she was a mean drunk by calling me a bunch of horrible names inferring that I was cheap.

I didn't really want to pay for her meal. I mean, I gave her a indirect verbal cue and asked her if she just assumed that because I asked her if she wanted to meet for dinner that I was buying. I told her that if I intended to pay for her dinner, then I would have asked her if I could buy her dinner. Not "meet her" for dinner.

But, she insisted that I pay. Saying 'No' is incredibly complex that you think when people meet for dinner. I paid, but I felt incredibly pressured. Like a victim of armed robbery. I felt incredibly vulnerable because she was acting like a scorned vindictive woman. I was afraid she was going to falsely accuse me of rape in a hysterical rage spiral.

the_unseen_one · 2018-01-15T21:37:41+00:00

Saying "no" is really very simple. Even three year olds know how to say "no", even to figures with "power" over them. Are we really pretending that grown ass women are less capable of saying a one syllable word than a toddler?

I was already gobsmacked that regret rape was a thing, but now we have disappointment rape. Apparently every disappointing tryst you have can now be classified as rape.

Kyle_Fischer · 2018-01-15T17:45:31+00:00

These responses, which are disturbingly widespread, not only shift the blame and responsibility onto the woman

wait, the widespread shifting of blame and responsibility on a woman for her own actions is disturbing?

We're talking about identifying the non-verbal ways a person may try to demonstrate discomfort and a lack of consent.

there's not even an allegation of threat or coercion but THE GIRL HAD HER LIPS WRAPPED AROUND ANSARI'S COCK. she was not giving "non-verbal" communication of lack of consent.

this author is a pathetic loser. so is the girl claiming it was assault.

Invicturion · 2018-01-15T18:29:13+00:00

Of course it fucking is straight forward... Women have done it for thousands of years! They do it every time their husbonds/boyfriends suggest getting an indoor bowling alley, pool table, or 80" tv..

Our_media_lies · 2018-01-15T20:44:28+00:00

What if men are afraid to say no to a woman incase she might freak out and accuse him of assault or something. Cause I know there are a lot of women who don't like being turned down. I mean I'm just reversing her ideas here. But also part of me thinks if she was to weak to say no in that circumstance she probably shouldn't be allowed out of the house.

Cristoff13 · 2018-01-16T00:45:49+00:00

Why are feminists pussy-footing around and just saying he "sexually assaulted" her? If they did oral sex, and she didn't want to and wasn't consenting, then its rape, right? Just have some balls feminists and call him a rapist.

-manatease · 2018-01-15T18:20:51+00:00

It's interesting to read the output of some of these career feminists. They really need to keep it up to justify their place in their niche markets having built their identities and careers around this increasingly insane movement.

I'm not sure if they believe the stuff they write because of this dependence on insanity.

alclarkey · 2018-01-15T21:15:17+00:00

Women can't say no? So why are they allowed outside without a husband or male family member with them?

Stoicdadman · 2018-01-16T00:19:23+00:00

EQUALITY EQUALITY!!!!

Just don't hold (women) to the UNIVERSAL STANDARDS of a responsible adult.

Even after the sexual acts, if she said, "Sorry loser, I thought this was about something different, no more, i'm out..." The ONLY thing she leavs with is a full stomach and hurt pride.

Trying to drag ANYONE down as she is because she made some big mistakes speaks so loudly about her character, I do not believe her words hold any real worth.

We assume celeberties are smart. We assume he COULD read subtle signals. That is bullshit. NO MEANS NO. The ONLY effective hint. He is HUMAN too , as is she.

Aziz is guilty of nothing here but thinking with his head, not his head. If a woman wants a partner who is more than that, go find one. If you find out too late that his is looking for nothing more than a good lay, perhaps he is not the one who needs to learn to pick up on "subtle hints."

ThreeTokes · 2018-01-15T16:14:31+00:00

How pathetic.

Surtysurt · 2018-01-15T19:15:45+00:00

No could have, should have, would have necessary; if you think that going back to their place isn't going to get sexual, you ARE an idiot.

2018-01-15T19:34:08+00:00

I bet there are lots of defenders on Mashable.

2018-01-15T22:57:31+00:00

NO is hard to say. But saying "he sexually assaulted me" Bruh you can do it with your eyes closed, you can do it upside down. you can do it on max difficulty.

OnTheSlope · 2018-01-15T23:09:04+00:00

jesus christ, this:

“I said I don’t want to feel forced because then I’ll hate you, and I’d rather not hate you,” she said.

is the verbal cue she gave him to stop? And all this time I thought it was a "no" or a "stop"

There is an awful lot of work being down to preserve plausible deniability for women here

2018-01-16T05:30:43+00:00

You know this is blowing my mind.

You (feminists) cannot say that women are strong, independent and powerful who need no men while also saying that saying "no" is hard for them. How can both be true?

Meistermalkav · 2018-01-15T17:24:54+00:00

Simple.

If women needed to fake being on the period, to "weasel" out of committments, how about we throw our weight around to get them recognised as mentally unfit to raise children and pets?

Because, with a dog, if you constantly hope your pet gets your nonverbal cues, by the end of things, you don't get what you want.

With a man, you don't get it too.

Oh, and i am sorry in advance, about Mister Ansari here, but I seen the dude. He is the lexicon definition of a manlet, he could be the warning example on a soy and you: Just say no poster, and despite both things beging fully ok, Just looking around I know a lot of women trhat could probably take him. I mean, physically, put him in their bags against his will, and run. The dude is tiny, and weighs less then a portion of french fries. If she was afraid that he was going on a rage fuelled spiral after being told no, I am sorry. This is where the article , even with a stretch, could no longer be taken seriously. This turned from maybe some exotic sort of a pürobnlem into nope, total fiction.

So, you were so mortally afraid of the dude, that you moved up to him, talked to him, got him to the level where sex with a fan could happen, took him to a place, undressed, watched him undress, and THEN you were afraid he could have gone mental when you said no?

I am sorry, but you are not the neighborhood girl, that just had a fear. You are the outlier. You are the woman that is not able to act like an adult, but instead, acts like a little girl. Yoiu are not able to say clearly what you want, you expect the world to act on the idea of your whim, treating you like a spoiled priviledged princess.

So, where is the difference between that and "I send him a text afterwards going, if you don't want me to fake that I thought about not being okay with this, date me. "

Just because you may have thought that he was ok? Just because he got hard, you thought he agreed to this?

I am just going to say this:

Like someone that drove 15 minutes, put the car on the interstate, got out of the car, stripped, and played hopscotch into oncoming traffic, at every point of your decision, you had the ability to get out and go, I don't feel comfortable, with this.

And I agree, It is scary, but it was scary the momen t you singled Mister Anzari out, you talked to him, cut him from the herd, laughed at his jokes, grabbed him, went back to his room, undressed, followed his orders, and it continued.

To parody a bad kat williams bit, If you laugh at a mans jokes, don't complain that he isn't interested. If you then talk to said man, don't complain that he is not interested. If you then let it go deeper, dn'*t omplain he is interested. If you then let it go to the rooim, without clearly bending out, in pubnlic, don't complain he is interested.

But if your triflingt ass select a pony from the herd, cut the pony from the herd, pet the pony, feed the pony, put a saddle on the pony, and show up dressed head to toe in ponyriders daily gear....

Don't expect the pony to suddenly get any other idea then awesome, someone is wanting to ride me.

IF you think something else, lets examine the idea.

Mister ansari was doing his best to obtain a consenting partner. He did not go out of his way to attract you, you attracted him. he gave you plenty of room to go away, even stopped, in joke form, despite his girlish figure, to reaffirm your consent, knowing full well that any open window could blow him away.

And yet, you took advantage for that, and were disappointed by the fact that he was, to put it frankly, weak and girly in bed. You send him the fitting text back.

Yet, all in all, now you try to sell it to a tabloid that he assaulted you? Sory, news flash. Ansari did not agree to have sex with a non consenting female. He put up barriers, asked for consent, again and again, and each time, you tricked him.

I am sorry, but as far as I see this, Ansari was raped by that lady. he gave all the consent seeking affirmative answers expected of him, and yet, not a single time, his consent was asked for. Every single sexual interaction, by the standart of the ccuser, happened without Mister ansaris consent. Why should a woman most likely not suffering from dwarfism and starvation be allowed to freely pick and choose, how she planned to get Mister ansari's verbal consent? he was scared out of his minds, tried to overplay his lack of masculinity, and at multiple times signaled his consent only to have sex with consenting women. The first sexual contact was taken by the woman in this constellation, without obtaining Mister Ansari's consent, therefore, she violently raped him, and should be called to the stands to answer for that.

ldemiurge · 2018-01-15T22:10:32+00:00

Hey, listen to this story about Aziz Ansari.

https://youtu.be/5gDJTQCYgIY?t=18m17s

pazz · 2018-01-16T03:05:07+00:00

This woman sounds pathetic

majortom22 · 2018-01-16T05:44:41+00:00

This poor guy.

You realize the groundwork is there for this to be done to everyone. Something. It won't stop here.

azazelcrowley · 2018-01-16T12:47:46+00:00

Remember that study showing a lot of men have sex they don't want?

I sorely doubt these ideologues want to class all those instances as misconduct.

Title	Mashable wants to redefine consent - "Hey Aziz Ansari defenders, saying 'no' is more complex than you think"
Author	pixelies
Upvotes	228
Comments	58
Date	January 15, 2018 2:27 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7qjzb2/mashable_wants_to_redefine_consent_hey_aziz/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mashable-wants-to-redefine-consent-hey-aziz-ansari.907769 https://theredarchive.com/post/907769

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