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Judge sides with student punished by university after it exonerated him of rape claims

DGAgainstDV

January 11, 2017
1835 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/30674/
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Title Judge sides with student punished by university after it exonerated him of rape claims
Author

DGAgainstDV

Upvotes 1835
Comments 66
Date January 11, 2017 1:52 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5nc9kh/judge_sides_with_student_punished_by_university/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/judge-sides-with-student-punished-by-university.934247
https://theredarchive.com/post/934247
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Comments

[–][deleted] 521 points522 points523 points 9 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

The appeal board stopped short of finding Doe responsible for sexual assault but imposed a “new sanction” of suspension through the spring 2020 term – with readmittance possible only if he completed a counseling program.

"So, you're not guilty or anything. But we're still going to sentence you to 5 years and force you to complete anti-rapist counseling."

Holy Christ...

[–]Electroverted 241 points242 points243 points 9 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure about which part took the most balls, suspending an innocent student for years or assuming he wouldn't do anything about it.

[–]RetBullWings 162 points163 points164 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Same here. My jaw hit the floor when I saw that.

"No finding of sexual assault, but we're going to punish you anyway."

[–]Electroverted 64 points65 points66 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Again, it's audacious that they think they'll get away with it. I have a feeling that don't care because it's not their money in the lawsuit.

[–]DL4CK 41 points42 points43 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not only that but because of federal anti-discrimination laws regarding education, they could lose their federal funding if they don't have these kangaroo courts.

[–]CeeZees 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hah,

It is current federal "guidance" letters from the Executive branch that encourage this type of behavior.

[–]Mobmanmoose 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it is more likely that they had no ducking idea what they were doing and should never have been appointed as a "court" to wield so much power.

[–]Anaxagoras23 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That and they probably solicited more advice from the Women's Studies department than the pre-law faculty.

[–]iHeartCandicePatton 56 points57 points58 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Way to fuck up somebody's prospects for life. How is this allowed?

[–][deleted] 81 points82 points83 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Because men=bad. Duh

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points38 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Need to protect innocent, pure women at all costs.

[–]contractor808 24 points25 points26 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

  • There is said to be a rape and sexual assault epidemic on campus. Of course, this is only said to be men assaulting women. (Neither claim is supported by evidence.)

  • Because there are supposedly epidemic rates of sexual assault, colleges were told they weren't doing enough to curb sexual assault which in effect means they weren't punishing enough young men. The people in favor of the systems described in the article do not have enough sexual criminals to justify their claims, so they increased the amount of men who were punished by broadening the definition of sexual misconduct and reducing the standard of evidence and rigorousness of investigative procedure.

  • Government officials have been able to coerce colleges (with some needing more or less coercion depending on their ideology) to comply with the above by threatening the funding of colleges. They do this by claiming that improper handling of sexual misconduct claims by government standards is a breach of Title IX sexual discrimination protections.

[–]dungone 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The truth is that there is no credible threat. These are majority female student bodies who would be affected by funding cuts. The funding cuts would also have to get through real courts with real lawyers. If this really came to pass, we would be witnessing a bizarre new world where suddenly the "primary" victims of false accusations and kangaroo courts were women.

Also, many of these schools have gone well beyond what is called for by the feminist federal guidelines. They actually support these policies.

[–]contractor808 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, there are many in campus administrations who are completely on board with the current policies. And unfortunately there are some who have been rewarded with government employment in the institutions that promoted such policies.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Guilty of being a hanging penis male

[–]Tmomp 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

readmittance possible only if he completed a counseling program.

I hope the members of the appeal board are required to take counseling programs. Maybe something about the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

[–]csgardner 220 points221 points222 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

The university was already under Title IX investigation by the Department of Education, and a student had gone public with her rape allegations after JMU issued a punishment of “expulsion after graduation” against her alleged attackers, who were never charged, Johnson said.

WTF is this story wedged in the bottom? A girl brings forth an accusation after the guy graduates, the DoE investigates based on that, so the school, what, pulled his diploma? Without any charges?

It's already very dubious for schools to be handling a serious crime like sexual assault in some kind of academic hearing, but after the accused graduates? Again, without any charges? How could that possibly make any sense?

[+]MrMischiefVIP points 9 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

I believe I read something about that awhile ago. As I understand it they did not pull the accused's degree or anything, he's just not allowed to enroll in classes at that school. Which at first glance, who cares, but if I want to pursue an advanced degree it's likely I would return to my alma mater for it.

[–]csgardner 25 points26 points27 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, that's very interesting, assuming your recollection is correct. One can imagine this causing issues even if he doesn't attend his alma matter for grad school. e.g. Would this punishment be on his public records? Would other grad school see it? Employers?

If he's really just barred from that school, that suggests to me that the committee knew what they were doing was unjust, and were just trying to find some way to squirm out from under the thumb of the fascists at the DoE.

[–]kaliwraith 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, it's probably better to do it elsewhere so you get a different perspective on your major. Unquestionably important if you're doing a PhD.

[–]Istalriblaka 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Same here - I intend to go full doctorate after I finish my undergrad studies, then take the occasional summer class just for the hell of it after that. I'd hate to be told I couldn't return, especially since my university is a pretty nice one. (On the upside, my university also doesn't seem to have any issue with anything like that.)

[+]WiWiWiWiWiWi points 9 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Source?

[+]MrMischiefVIP points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

me own head, I thought I made that pretty clear. I'm not going to look it up for you when we're both on the same internet

[–]Mens-Advocate 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Is it noted on his transcript, seen by employers and unis?

[–]AspiringGuru 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is one of many reasons why online portals (Coursera, Edx etc) are taking off. More people are realizing all the non-essential parts of University 'life' are not only a distraction from academic activity, but a major liability educational institutions should not engage in.

I found it much easier during Uni to avoid on campus clubs and socialize off campus.

[–]I_dontevenlift 100 points101 points102 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

college boards are the worst with these. I was suspended for a semester reduced from expulsion after fighting my case that was bizarre. The witness I brought was also the victim, so my school essentialy fought the victim and I trying to defend her

[+]PsilocybersStone points 9 years ago [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

I understand if you're unable or unwilling to share details due to pending litigation, but... LOLWUT?

[–]I_dontevenlift 96 points97 points98 points 9 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

TLDR: Ex and I traded blows, she hit first, im the only one that was punished because I was bigger than her.

Nah, I can, it happened years ago. Ex and I, both drunk, got into a fight outside a club and she punched me in the face, so I punched her back. Her nose started bleeding so we went to the hospital thinking it was broke (which was about 10 blocks away and it wasnt), owned by my school. School cops are there and question me, and we tell them we got into a fight. Cops try and arrest me but ex didnt want to press charges so they couldnt.

Fast foward the next morning, I get an email that I have been suspended for the rest of the semester because I violated a code of conduct law. Ex was over and was getting emails about victim protection and a guide to "how to issue a restraining order." School prosecutor called me and said he was going to push for expulsion. Came in to tell him my side of the story. What he tells me next will forever solidify my stance against this unconstitutional practice of College Courts.

After listening to my story, he looks down at my transcript and says, "What do you think the FBI or police officers are going to think when they see this on your record?" He obviously saw that I was a criminal justice major and had aspirations of joining the FBI. Bastard already made up his long before he called me in to give me my side of the story.

My ex pleaded that they were treating me unfairly so they assumed I was forcing her hand. So I took her to my court date by the board and he did not bring any witnesses, and his argument was that I was a bigger man and I should have used force because it was unneccassary for a weaker person.

Instead of expulsion, I was going to be put on hold for the rest of the semester (which was one week) because they didnt have enough evidence to charge me. I asked them for a refund for the semester I wasted and they changed it to suspension instead of a hold, so I couldnt get my money back.

I am now working for a prestigous government agency doing background checks, so no T. C., I had no worries of getting into my field of study. Also fuck you

Edit: proof reading

[–]iHeartCandicePatton 32 points33 points34 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Wow that sucks, good on your girl for backing you up.

[+]speedisavirus -23 points-22 points-21 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Especially since it sounds like she acted like a twat...and assuming the ex part she may have been.

[–]iHeartCandicePatton 45 points46 points47 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I would say that she backed him up when she could have easily gotten away with it is evidence to the contrary

[–]dungone 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She actually attacked him. If she didn't back him up he would have been forced to file actual charges against her. Not that it would hve worked, but maybe she haf a guilty conscience and this was her first time around the block with our slanted justice system.

[+]PsilocybersStone points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think I've had any SO, or even female friend, who has never intentionally physically hurt me. I'm not talking about something like being punched in the face, necessarily (though there was one friend who did that) or even lasting injury. Just, y'know, you make an off-color joke, she slugs you in the arm.

Doesn't even particularly hurt or anything, but it's not like it feels good to have someone do that to you (unless you're into that kinda shit, in which case you did you). It's only in the past five years or so that I've stopped letting it pass by without comment.

[–]Iconio 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup. This.

[–]Mens-Advocate 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

and his argument was that I was a bigger man

Feminists are now trying to institutionalise/codify this in the law via primary aggressor theory, an extension of Duluth Model.

[–]AspiringGuru 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

good to hear this worked out for you. also this and other stories need to be told more often.

[–]Mythandros 119 points120 points121 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

This school needs to be shut down. They have proven that they cannot follow a legal judgement and that is a danger to each and every student that attends this farce of an educational institute.

[–]Crayshack 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Shutting the school down might be a bit of an extreme action. There are 20,000 students there who would have their education unfairly disrupted by this. In terms of quality of education, it is considered one of the best in the region. It is also the largest employer in Harrisonburg so shutting down the school would put thousands out of a job and completely destroy the local economy.

However, having the state step in and remove the administration in favor of state appointed officials subject to direct oversight by Richmond might be called. The administration has shown their faults in this matter and may need to be completely replaced, but the University itself is simply too important just get rid of.

[–]Mythandros 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay, fair enough. My main concern would be the welfare of the students. I wouldn't want to see another student go through what this boy went through.

[+]definitelyjoking -18 points-17 points-16 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

What? Is there something to suggest the school isn't going to follow this judgement against them? Is there some other judgment you're referring to? Frankly, this isn't even a problem caused by individual colleges. Double jeopardy was demanded by the Dear Colleague letter, and it is precisely that federal pressure which has caused all these issues. Thinking a college being backed into a corner by the federal government means the college needs to be shut down is just a bizarre reaction to the wrong actor.

EDIT: No explanation of why this is the school's fault, just impotent, misplaced rage. Downvotes to the left fellas.

[–]Prod_Is_For_Testing 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They ignore police findings. The school repeatedly punishes students even after police investigations prove no wrongdoing. That's the major problem here. There were no police charges because there wasn't enough evidence to display foulplay. And yet, the university levies punishment regardless of that fact

[+]definitelyjoking -10 points-9 points-8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Police findings aren't really a legal judgement. The police can recommend things, but it's the DA who actually makes those decisions. Most of these cases don't get that far, and in some cases the alleged victim never even goes to the police. More so, this is still not a policy of this school specifically. It's a terrible federal policy requiring it. Schools essentially all require federal funding (loans) to function. It's why it was such an effective club. Lashing out angrily at the school like they pulled this shit out of a hat makes you all look silly.

[–]lenin1928 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks to our freedom fighting employees at the justice department for the title 9 anti male legislation, young men in every university can live happier, safer, more just lives.

[–]contractor808 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's in large part coming from the Office for Civil Rights. They passed overreaching guidance that did not proceed through the proper rule-making process.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like the judge got his back though. Which is refreshing.

The misrepresentation of when the voicemail occurred, goes to show again the lengths a woman will go to who falsely accuses a man of rape.

[–]bradtwo 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm sure it's somewhere in the agreement of the university that they can do whatever the fuck they want. This could include writing whatever they want on your record that would follow you if you went to a new university.

I also imagine the school is exempt from any legal action from the student because of these laws as well.

Meanwhile, what happened to the girl who falsely accused him? What were the ramifications of her lies that ruined this guy's life and has caused him much grief? What about his name that has been dragged through the mud over this? I mean, he should be able to take her and her family for all their worth over this... i mean this is some fucked up shit that starts out with a lie.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree 100 million percent. There seems to be no recourse for any man who's falsely accused of rape.

[–]contractor808 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, although he could sue civilly I assume. However, the cost may not be worth the effort.

[–]chambertlo 22 points23 points24 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The school should be sued until it is forced to close. These institutions have no place in modern society.

ZERO TOLERANCE

[–]Proteus_Marius 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Doe may have a property interest in his education, but I hope he chooses a better place to attain it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Isn't their anything we can do like open a go find me page for the family anything I mean a innocent guy gets put in jail and not even a peaceful protest ? No twitter campaign or anything ? I swear to god we're screwed and no one cares

[–]contractor808 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Consider donating to The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education or Title IX for All. The former is a civil rights group that protects free speech and has also been very active on this Title IX/due process issue. The latter is a database of lawsuits against colleges and an informal network of lawyers/plaintiffs in such cases.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The university was already under Title IX investigation by the Department of Education, and a student had gone public with her rape allegations after JMU issued a punishment of “expulsion after graduation” against her alleged attackers, who were never charged, Johnson said.

Under JMU’s argument before Dillon, according to Johnson, “any student who wanted to conceal a wrongful finding of sexual assault could simply not produce his educational records. Judge Dillon rejected this suggestion as the false choice it was.”

this is some chilling shit for anyone in a college program today.

[–]AloysiusC 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is about building a home here!

[–]mountainfountain 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just in case anyone was curious, this is by the same reporter who was attacked by a professor while filming the protests on Mizzou's campus. Keep it up Kayla!!

[–]Seventh_______ 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is madness

[–]DevilishRogue -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's not madness, that is Madness.

[+]weapawn points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

This is Sparta

[–]timeslider -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is Jeopardy!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

tell me more about the "patriarchy". Way i see it 1st, false rape allegations if proven false should carry the same sentence as someone convicted of rape, with the lifelong sex offender status. 2nd, those administrators who levied punishment in spite of finding no evidence should be stripped of their title and position at said university and fined $500,000 a piece to be paid to the defendant.

[–]CynixCS 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

...How is it even legal to punish somebody for something A GOD DAMN COURT found them innocent of?

That smells like lawsuit time.

[–]functionalsociopathy 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The media is starting to die out. I think colleges might be next on the liberal extinction list.

[–]ST07153902935 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

In the defense of the Obama administration the 5th Amendment is one of the more boring ones. Who needs it?

[–]contractor808 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Who even reads that far, I mean come on.

[–]Rawrination 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah really that whole old fashioned document is overrated. It shuld be tosszed out an remaid to liek current year stuff. /s

[–]theGentlemanInWhite 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

God fucking dammit it started out not naming them and then did it anyway. Fuck these publishers.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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