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Montana quarterback receives $245K settlement for university’s ‘unfair and biased’ rape investigation

desmay

February 19, 2016
1427 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/17/montana-quarterback-receives-245k-settlement-for-universitys-unfair-and-biased-rape-investigation/?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_mix
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Title Montana quarterback receives $245K settlement for university’s ‘unfair and biased’ rape investigation
Author

desmay

Upvotes 1427
Comments 74
Date February 19, 2016 3:53 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/46l8x3/montana_quarterback_receives_245k_settlement_for/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/montana-quarterback-receives-245k-settlement-for.955771
https://theredarchive.com/post/955771
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Comments

[–][deleted] 190 points191 points192 points 10 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

Fantastic. I'm glad to see minimal reprecussions finally hitting schools for these farcical kangaroo courts.

[–]Griever114 122 points123 points124 points 10 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

I agree. I just wish the girl involved would get HER name and career destroyed as well.

[–]SideTraKd 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

His career got destroyed before he ever had a chance to respond to the charges.

[–]Griever114 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thats my point. Tit for tat. The money wont go very far especially since his future career earnings will never be made again

[–]trustworthysauce 29 points30 points31 points 10 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

While I agree that the punishment for girls who make false rape accusations isn't strong enough, it doesn't sound like that is the case here. The article doesn't give all the details, but it sounds like they had sex and she tried (not convincingly enough) to tell him she didn't want to. The school ruled that there was a preponderance of evidence that he sexually assaulted her, but there was not clear and convincing evidence.

This issue is not black and white. The court ruled that the evidence was insufficient to reach the verdict the school reached, but that doesn't mean he is innocent or that the girl falsely accused him.

[–]brennanww 34 points35 points36 points 10 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

That's how the legal system works, the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt, if you don't prove your case BARD then you have no case.

[–]trustworthysauce 29 points30 points31 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Right. The point made in the article is that the burden of proof a school uses to suspend and expel students is not the same as the burden of proof in court. The school's mistake was not adhering to their own stated burden of proof.

BUT, none of this changes the fact that we shouldn't blame the girl for accusing him just because there wasn't enough evidence to convict him. We don't know that he didn't sexually assault her, just that there isn't enough evidence to prove he did. IF he could prove that he didn't sexually assault her, I would pick up my pitchfork and clamor for harsher punishments for her.

[–]zer0t3ch 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Exactly this. Too many people don't realize that acquitted does not always equal innocent.

[–]itoucheditforacookie 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But, to many men are admonished for the thought that they have.

[–]KingMong 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Just as many people assume everyone accuse of rape is always guilty, even if you don't go to jail, you will probably have to move away and hope no one Googles you.

[–]zer0t3ch 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I get that. The majority of the human populous is retarded in some way.

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Being accused != guilty.

We can throw platitudes around all day, regressionist.

[–]zer0t3ch 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not saying he is guilty, I'm just saying that we're not certain enough that he's innocent to lash out against his accuser. All we know is there wasn't enough evidence to convict him, there's also not enough evidence to convict her of lying.

But it's cool if you just wanna fling shit at me for being a reasonable human being.

[–]_throwaway16384 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Just like nobody can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she was lying, therefore she shouldn't be punished either.

[–]brennanww 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

agreed

[–]bertreapot 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Disagree. If it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that she is lying, then she should be punished. Actually if you're following OCR's guideline that a "preponderance" of the evidence should be used in campus courts for sex discrimination, then if it is proved that the accuser lied by a preponderance of the evidence, she should be punished.

[–]_throwaway16384 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that she is lying, then she should be punished.

I agree with this. But from what we know it doesn't seem like that's the case?

[–]bertreapot 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

True, I don't know the facts of this specific case.

[–]IsNotACleverMan -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Beyond a reasonable doubt is only fit criminal cases. Other cases are to the standard of a preponderance of the evidence which is to say that the evidence shows you more likely did it than not.

[–]probpoopin 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're talking about civil Vs criminal court.

[–]IsNotACleverMan 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well yeah. But the guy above me said that that legal system work on the basis of proof beyond a reasonable doubt which is demonstrably false.

[–]bertreapot 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Preponderance" isn't the only thing that makes student conduct courts unfair. You're not allowed to use a lawyer, the school's definition of sexual assault is much broader than the law's (think "unwanted sexual activity" vs. "forced, non-consensual sex"), and the conduct board is made up of volunteers, meaning they can either be taught to presume guilt by University guidance, or simply presume guilt by the fact that they are college students and professors who already have a bias against accused men.

In addition, the accused students can't subpoena witnesses or evidence like they can in an actual court (think emails where the accuser said the sex was consensual, or witnesses who may have witnessed the two together. The accused may not even know about this evidence without a court subpoena). In some cases, even when students have presented this exonerating evidence, Title IX coordinators have excluded it from the evidence the board sees as being "irrelevant."

My point being, there are a lot more problems with these student courts besides just using a lower burden of proof than what you see in criminal court. The student hearings are unfair, all around.

It is true that being found "not guilty" doesn't necessarily mean that you're innocent, however creating a system that is inherently unjust does not fix the problem.

[–]myevillaugh 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Since it went to trial, isn't it public record?

[+]FredAsta1re -7 points-6 points-5 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

No. It shouldn't happen to anyone

Edit: Excuse me? Kneejerk social justice is at fault in a lot of these cases. Don't sink to their level. There's scummy people out there, but retaliation isn't the answer . . . The answer is not having peoples names and careers put out by media in the first place

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]xynomaster 16 points17 points18 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as of this moment we don't know for certain whether she was raped or not, right?

Obviously his acquittal doesn't make him innocent, and the idea of bashing the victim here is wrong. But I don't see how we can presume that he was guilty either, given only what we know.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]myevillaugh 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I would guess the jury has a lot more facts than you do. But go ahead, form your opinions on a sensational book.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]myevillaugh 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Why weren't they presented if they were relevant? We're they unverifiable? Or were they irrelevant and from the mob?

[–]tclearinghouse 66 points67 points68 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

$245K definitely does not seem like equal compensation for having your name dragged through the mud unjustly. Imagine the strain this must have put on that poor guys life.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]junk2sa 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

And considering the huge cut the lawyers will take. At least he might be able to pay off some of his student loans.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]junk2sa 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's going to be impossible to prove the potential earnings. I would agree that he should file a defamation suit, if there was any obvious bad-will in the original claim. (I did not read the details of the case)

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]junk2sa 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed.

[–]Dark_Shroud 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This has been a one two punch against colleges now.

We had that woman who actually was raped by a member of the football team and they tried covering that up. Because he was on the football team.

Now we have a legal precedent for men who have been falsely accused.

So many just maybe these damn colleges can learn to simply let the police handle it. If a student is raped go to the police.

And once Obama is out of office maybe the Feds will back the hell off colleges or colleges should take them to court.

[–]Twongwukim 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If it's Hilary, then the Feds will probably be even worse. The real problem is this Federal Title IX. That needs to be repealed.

[–]bertreapot 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It isn't even Title IX, honestly. Title IX just says colleges can't discriminate based on sex. It is the Department of Education and their Office of Civil Rights that have given "guidance" that Title IX means colleges should hold these kangaroo courts for sexual assault allegations.

You wouldn't need Congress to repeal Title IX to fix this problem. You'd only need the President to say this is not how the executive branch chooses to interpret the statute.

[–]privatebrowsin1 27 points28 points29 points 10 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Man, great to hear. Wish there were some serious consequences for the accuser.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]trustworthysauce 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Did you read the article? She didn't make up events that didn't happen. She just didn't make it clear enough that she didn't want to sleep with him, and she allowed it after he was "pushy."

Seems like there is a fine line between convincing a girl to have sex with you and sexual assault.

[–]baskandpurr 16 points17 points18 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

she allowed it after he was "pushy."

It doesn't matter if he was pushy or not. If she allowed it then she consented and its not rape. We can't go around accusing people of a crime because they are persistent. A persistent salesman is not committing a theft.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]rab912009 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Now you're the theif.

[–]wicknest 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

buyer probably fits better than salesman in that sentence

[–]LackingTact19 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Unless that salesman works at a car dealership

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]kragshot 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It sounds like she felt that she was coerced into having sex against her will.

Or she agreed to have sex with him and then regretted it afterwards and then was subsequently "convinced by a feminist friend" that it was rape (which happens more in these cases than people are willing to admit).

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]ihateewoks 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The friend she texted was the guy in the next room with one wall between them. She was friends with both dudes who lived there & came over to their place to hangout with the accused. He made some moves during the movie and she responded to the moves, I believe she even said that she did in "Missoula." I believe at the point of sex, she said he held her arms down and wouldn't let her get away when she wanted to get away. She didnt cry or scream or make any noise except a small moan. After cumming, he then went into the bathroom attached to his bedroom and she texted the guy in the next room. That guy responded with something like wtf then get out of there! And she left before the accused came out of his bathroom.

Source: Missoula. This case was probably the most iffy in the book. There were others which featured 18 year old girls drinking 15 shots of hard alcohol + smoking marijuana for the first time (all in the span of 45 min.) at some random guys house they had never met before then passing out because of those decisions they made on their own. They didn't deserve to be gang raped but they probably should have known that one loses control of ones body when one combines drugs and drinks extremely dangerous amounts in less than one hour.

[–]tarunteam 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He can probably sue her separately for false allegations.

[–]by_myself 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What you're suggesting is against the rules of reddit.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Whose job is it?

[–]Hypertroph 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nobody's. Let the court system handle it, or we're no better than they are.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]BigJ76 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

we're better than that

You give Redditors too much credit

[–]PolishHammerMK 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Hahaha these universities are gonna go bankrupt because of these stupid rape accusations

[–]bertreapot 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Unfortunately, probably not. UM probably gets millions a year from federal money (research grants and student loans). If being unjust to male students means once in a blue moon they'll have to pay a few hundred thousand dollars, on balance they really don't have a problem with this.

[–]PolishHammerMK 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, I'd like to think that sooner or later, someone there will think that having that money laying around would be a lot nicer than just giving it away after trials. Someone will come around and hopefully realize that this is a major thorn in their side.

[–]bloodfoxtrue 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

“An estimated one in five women has been sexually assaulted during her college years — one in five,” President Obama said.

Not the first time I've heard of that statistic, but I have difficulty believing that... I'd like to review the actual study behind that.

[–]Roshambo_USMC 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They include regretting sex as rape in that study that has a joke of a sample size.

[–]gsettle 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

1 in 5? Sounds like feminazi BS to me.

[–]xJAAx 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're right, here's a vid for a deeper explanation of it if you want.

[–]pbjandahighfive 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

It's so fucked up when cases of actual rape are the lowest that they have ever been in the United States right now and cases of false rape accusations are the absolute highest that they've ever been. While I don't think poorly of all woman, it does put fear into a man when courting any woman in the modern age, because you can never tell until it's over if they are going to try and fuck your life up for no reason just because they can and know they can get away with it. I just don't understand what they get out of it; why they are so cruel, downright evil even. At least I am damn glad that I actually have a wonderful unicorn of a girlfriend who maintains decency in the midst of all this madness.

[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

While I don't think poorly of all woman

Why not? That's exactly what women are doing to men. Make the social repercussions too harsh for women to bear so they back off.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I love how the article mentions "mattress girl," but neglects to state that her rape accusations were total bullshit.

[–]TheFlyingDharma 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well he almost got a quarter back.

[–]iwas-saying-boo-urns 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"But you're still not making it to the pros because your reputation is shit now"

[–]Ferfrendongles 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's starting!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good for him. It's time for good news.

[–]Lhtfoot 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

:)

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