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When nude photos of female celebrities are posted on the Internet, The Frisky likens it to rape. When it happened to Justin Bieber? He has "a nice fucking wang"

PierceHarlan

October 19, 2015
900 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.cotwa.info/2015/10/when-nude-photos-of-female-celebrities.html
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Title When nude photos of female celebrities are posted on the Internet, The Frisky likens it to rape. When it happened to Justin Bieber? He has "a nice fucking wang"
Author

PierceHarlan

Upvotes 900
Comments 51
Date October 19, 2015 3:14 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3pb3wy/when_nude_photos_of_female_celebrities_are_posted/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/when-nude-photos-of-female-celebrities-are-posted.969144
https://theredarchive.com/post/969144
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Comments

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good idea, Joeyjoefro.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What happened to all the esses after apostrophes? Bizarro.

[–]Jubba_Gump 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It could use a few more "frankly"s.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just sent. More like this please! A great way to use online media to achieve mass aims without much hassle in a targeted and affective way!

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 24 points25 points26 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The "moral outrage" isn't about the pictures as much as it's about double standards. And it's only because outlets like COTWA and Reddit Men's Rights take issue with these things that it's finally seeping into the mainstream media that, gee, something can't be okay for one gender but not another.

If you'd like a list of all the things COTWA has championed that were eventually picked up by paid writers in the mainstream media, we'd be here all day.

Put it this way: if The Frisky hadn't taken the moral high ground regarding the fappening, no way would I have written this post at COTWA.

[–]DancesWithPugs -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The double standards is the last thing mentioned and seems like an afterthought.

A celebrity can't expect to get away with making a career out of becoming a sex object and then acting horrified when people want to see them naked and fap.

Now if someone gets hacked, sure the law should be involved at the victim's discretion, but does a bare penis or tits need to become a national issue?

[–]nuesuh 80 points81 points82 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

linking it to rape is disgusting.. everytime you call something that isn't rape "rape", you're shitting on victims of rape.

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points27 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is what rape culture actually is. The normalisation of the word/concept of rape by feminists screaming the word at every blink of an eyelid, likening everything possible to something traditionally considered a violent, heinous crime just to sensationalise the issue.

I'm convinced that if we start using "rape culture" in this sense (something made up by feminists which has become a real issue) then the rape culture brigade will jump ship and give up on it.

[–]nuesuh 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. We have western rape culture (feminists and cucks obsession with rape.. Feminists constantly talk and think about rape), and ACTURAL rape culture. Think India, some parts of africa and the middle east. There is barely any help for victims of rape, or punishment of the perpetrators. It isn't taken serious the same way as it is in the west.

But those tumblrinas are just gonna keep talking about rape in europe or the US. As if we have some sort of epidemic

[+]I_fight_demons -6 points-5 points-4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree that over-applying the word 'rape' cheapens the concept and makes rape more difficult to discuss and eliminate. But, to be fair, this sentence of yours is also something that needs to be addressed:

something traditionally considered a violent, heinous crime

The concept of rape is always violent and forceful is also a problem, since most rape isn't 'strangers at knife-point' but is often 'acquaintance pressuring or threatening in a non-physically overwhelming way' or 'someone taking advantage while the person is incapacitated.'

We need to be careful not to overdefine rape, but we also need to be careful not to underdefine rape. The fact that 'rape must be violent' is a cultural stereotype means that many things that are rape are not acknowledged as such and this is a legitimate part of rape culture, even as feminists define it.

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Rape is actually defined by the criminal statutes--it's a crime, and that's where crimes are defined. And, for example, "pressuring in a non-physically threatening way" is not rape. It is technically called "sexual coercion" and only certain colleges and universities punish it. We've written about it extensively, and here is the problem with punishing it even at the college level: http://www.cotwa.info/2012/03/legal-infirmities-to-punishing-sexual.html

In addition, there is no "rape culture," and even RAINN, the foremost anti-rape organization in America, has advocated that the term be ditched. "Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime," according to RAINN. The "unfortunate" tendency to blame 'rape culture' for sexual assault," RAINN wrote, "has led to an inclination to focus on . . . traits that are common in many millions of law-abiding Americans (e.g., 'masculinity'), rather than on the subpopulation at fault: those who choose to commit rape." Sadly, extremists in the feminist community think they know better than the most prominent anti-rape organization in America, so they insist that "rape culture" is a legitimate concept. It isn't.

[–]chavelah 23 points24 points25 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit, the comments. Two of the top ones are men explaining that their penis is actually bigger than Justin's. WAY TO MISS THE POINT, IDIOTS.

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 26 points27 points28 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And yet under the patriarchy only women are objectified in this way.

Weird.

[–]wanderer779 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

what the fuck is the frisky?

You just can't take these types of people seriously. A while back I saw someone describe them as toy soldiers which I thought was a perfect description. They don't have any ability to self reflect or form their own opinion. They just glob onto whatever the group is concerned with and when that runs out of steam they move onto something else.

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You've just described the modern feminist movement.

[–]wan2tri 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Toy soldiers are typically PART OF THE PATRIARCHY however!!! lol

[–]MittenMagick 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You know, there should be a sub, kind of like /r/MRRefs, that's dedicated to be a collection of these kind of double standards. Like, not one for people to comment on and poke fun of (let's face it, it makes fun of itself), but so that way if we ever need to pull out examples of how much men are discriminated against in a double-standard kind of way.

[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I suggested this once before and got downvoted and flamed.

[–]readitall2 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

More evidence of feminists secretly adoring patriarchal alpha males.

[–]chavelah 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

That guy is an alpha male?

Serious question.

Really?

[–]readitall2 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah hes got millions of females clamoring to bang him.

[–]chavelah 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm getting too old for this bullshit.

[–]RealLifeTim 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But no guys, they want EQUALITY

[–]ICantReadThis 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Admittedly, different writers. Also admittedly, the paper has an editor-in-chief. They signed off on this bullshit.

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Correct. For many years at COTWA, I would single out the actual writer of the article, but now I am of a mind to say to hell with that. The Frisky posts it, it needs to be accountable.

[–]modernbenoni 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Can they not hire writers who hold differing opinions on things?

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]modernbenoni -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you have any evidence that they've not hired somebody who advocates men's rights in sexual assault hearings?

I don't see a double standard. The articles are written by different people. If Frisky were to block either one from being published because of the view it held then it would be a biased media outlet. All they care about is the quality of writing and whether or not people will read it. I just feel like you're getting all wound up with the wrong people.

[–]funnybillypro 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't think using the Fappening as an example is the most accurate, but it's a very valid point. Thanks for the link to the Frisky article.

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The Fappening was simply the most extreme example of what the earlier Frisky article bemoaned. In both the Fappening and this case, we had pictures of people's naked bodies splashed across the Internet without their permission -- in Justin Bieber's case, he never posed for the pictures, they caught him unawares, which is creepy in itself. Yet we have some other readers on this thread insisting that the two are apples and oranges, because of legalities (in point of fact, Justin Bieber's legal team says this was illegal, too). Just read what the earlier Frisky article actually said--if you take it at face value,it should apply to Bieber's case, too.

[–]funnybillypro -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

For a group of dudes who are already not taken seriously, it does not behoove anyone to use 'the most extreme example.' There are plenty of comparable and more accurate examples than the Fappening.

I'm not taking a side as much as I prefer good arguments. The weak comparison weakens what is a valid argument.

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I am sorry, but your comment is completely lost on me.

First, I am not a "men's rights" advocate per se. I write a blog that deals almost exclusively with one narrow subject--and on that subject, I might add, I have taken a position less severe than some of the most respected law professors in America--almost of them are liberals and, yes, they are taken pretty seriously.

Second, I haven't been called "dude" since long before I was in law school, decades ago.

Third, your reaction is as puzzling as it is unsupportable. I was not comparing two events in my post, I was comparing The Frisky's statements about those two events--the Frisky's statements about the fappening do not comport with its treatment of Mr. Bieber in this instance. I knew as soon as I saw the over-the-top gushing over Mr. Bieber's manhood that this was wholly inconsistent with the way The Frisky would treat this issue if the genders were reversed. I am forced to read the Frisky constantly in connection with my writing for COTWA, so I know what I am talking about.

You would do well not to nitpick for the sake of nitpicking. Whatever criticism you think you were relating has not been conveyed in a coherent manner, and from what I can tell, is not valid.

[–]Greasier 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Well, to be fair, the women's pictures were taken from private collections that were hacked, and Justin seems to be in a place that can be viewed by the public, so I'm not sure if he legally claim an expectation of privacy.

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

The issue for the women has never been about the legalities as much as the absence of consent and their expectations of privacy, separate and distinct from whether the law says a violation of that those expectations is actionable. Just because they make cameras that can see coins on the moon doesn't mean they should be used to spy on people in their most intimate moments. Just because a girl sends a naked photo to her boyfriend doesn't mean he should post it on-line (or vice versa). Sending a drone camera over a topless woman on the beach strikes most decent people as wrong. It's an issue of right and wrong, good old fashioned morality, regardless of whether the act is technically legal.

I am assuming that Bieber really thought he was safe from the prying eyes of the media--whether that belief was reasonable would be up to a trier of fact. I suspect that the photos were taken with a super-sophisticated lens from a great distance, and that Bieber never saw the photographer. Bieber's legal team is threatening legal action, saying the publication of the photos represents a violation of the singer's publicity and privacy rights. They claim the photos also infringe on Bieber's trademarks.

Brad Pitt once forced Playgirl to recall an issue containing naked photos of him, claiming they were taken by a photographer who trespassed on the grounds of a hotel in the French West Indies island of St. Barthelemy where the actor was staying with his girlfriend at the time, Gwyneth Paltrow.

[–]falsehood 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I am assuming that Bieber really thought he was safe from the prying eyes of the media

Ok, fair enough - but women on beaches and tanning on hotel balconies have been targets of supers lenses for decades, and I never saw anyone make a comparison to rape - just an incredibly distastful media. "The Fappening" was an entirely different scenario because the photos were sexualized for a specific person, then removed from a private collection.

Here's a better example. Let's say two people have sex on a beach and some paparazzi captures it. Let's then say that they were filming it on a GoPro and the video is hacked, Fappening style. Which one of those media is more personal and more intimate? I would say its the video - something intended to be private is instead public.

TL;DR: You're making a false comparison and failing to rationalize it after the fact.

[–]Brodusgus 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't think Justin is going to make a fuss about it. That's really the difference between male and female.

[–]DancesWithPugs 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I see both genetic and cultural factors at play in the "difference between male and female."

Traditionalists taught women to "protect their virtue." Purity mattered. For the Western countries, the Bible viewed women as virtual property of either their father or their husband, and a women or girl that wasn't a virgin or faithful to her husband was seen as devalued property. I think that has a lot to do with the impulse to secure a genetic legacy and not "waste" resources on raising children that were not yours biologically. It's not compassionate or enlightened, but it's a factor.

2nd wave feminism taught women that men lusting after them was simply terrible, and that to emphasize their beauty and sexuality in a way appealing to men was degrading. This ugly fallacy persists today.

So either way you have a kind of "slut-shaming" of women's non-monogamous choices. I do think people unfaithful to their exclusive romantic partners should be shamed, since it is a betrayal in a relationship. Choosing to be honestly promiscuous is another matter. Now that we have reliable birth control I don't see any problem with responsible hedonism. Modern women, at least in the US, are caught between very conflicting messages that sometimes agree on a few points, like being afraid of sex. Consequently there are much more social risks associated with being blatantly sexual for women.

[–]Brodusgus 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That was a well written response.

[–]DancesWithPugs 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you!

[–]MidgardDragon 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They say the same shit when women get pictures taken of them topless on nude beaches, though.

[–]prodiver 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He was on an ocean villa in Bora Bora, like this one.

http://i.imgur.com/LNjHydJ.jpg

He was standing on a deck facing nothing but open ocean, and the photographer was on a boat with a long-range telephoto lens.

Bieber had a reasonable expectation of privacy.

[–]modernbenoni 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Should be pointed out that they're different authors writing for a pretty big website.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]modernbenoni -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do they not let those articles be published, or do they not have any writers who want to write about that?

The issue with web based media outlets is that they have very different processes to print media or such, so it's hard to hold them to the same standard.

[–]jmkiii 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I kinda file this under "No such thing as bad publicity..."

[–]Anpher -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it's a men's right's issue any less than is a woman's right's issue. In both cases it's generally unwanted.

[+]jagenigma -9 points-8 points-7 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You know men's rights need validation, when men are standing up for Justin beiber.

[–]PierceHarlan[S] 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not sure what your point is, but this isn't about Justin Bieber (I have never heard even one of his songs), or about "men's rights" or about validation of any kind. It's about double standards in the on-line gynomedia, where a popular outlet can take sanctimonious offense to something when women are the victims but actually take part in the same act to victimize a man.

[–]NecroticFury 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

People who disagree with this fact are engaging in misandry. Have no fault in calling them that to their face.

There is no possible way someone is not sexist if they have this thought process. That would include most feminists unfortunately. You'd literally have to believe a woman's privacy is more important than a man's.

Fucking pigs.

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