Egalitarian, MRA, feminist, can you be all of them, a couple of them, or only one?

hork23 · 2015-03-08T12:26:58+00:00

Feminism doesn't mean women's rights. An egalitarian is an advocate for human rights. Men and women are human thus an egalitarian must be an advocate for men and women's rights. It should not be controversial to advocate for men's rights, in fact, it shows one is not an egalitarian when they take a stance against men's rights. This is why feminism is not egalitarian, I can understand arguing against how the advocacy is being done but not the advocacy itself.

Also, feminism's central tenet is patriarchy theory which states that men have made a system that advantages themselves at the expense of women. Not only is version of patriarchy not true throughout all of history, it is then used to support hate against those that supposedly uses patriarchy which contains concepts, defined by feminists, to justify attacking, discrediting and shaming people into compliance.

Some of the feminists concepts are rape culture, historical oppression of women, the pay gap, hate of women all of which are proven through government data and historical research as blatantly false or at most the consequences of the choices of men and women. All these concepts are design to do exactly what they say the patriarchy does to women but to men, dehumanize, thus justifying hate and attack.

EDIT: Bad grammar hopefully removed.

G-O · 2015-03-08T18:00:45+00:00

If you are an egalitarian, then you have to be an MRA, let me explain.

If you are an egalitarian, then you are for equal human rights for all humans.

As men are human, you have to be for men's rights As an egalitarian, you also have to be for women's rights and black rights and white rights and gay rights and straight rights.

But you can't be a feminist as feminism is loaded with double standards. you can't have a "men can't be raped", "it's only sexist when men do it" "gender roles where created by men to oppress women" "female circumcision bad/ male circumcision good" "drunk women can't consent, men are accountable for them" and be an egalitarian as egalitarians are about equality. And don't make the mistake of NAFALT, feminism can not be divorced from this shit. This is the status quo of feminism, one would be expelled if one even attempts to reform it, just ask Christina Hoff Sommers.

MRA's on the otherhand are egalitarian's, who are specializing in getting rights for men on par with that of women were we notice they are deficient. We may have vile things to say about feminists and their ideology, but we do not hate women. You will have have a damn hard time finding a post around here advocating that men should have some right and women be denied, and that post will be down voted to oblivion.

AloysiusC · 2015-03-08T09:08:05+00:00

You gave reproductive rights as a reason to be a feminist. But that there is a pro-choice specifically for that. Do you have any other reasons?

Honestly when I try to find more information there seems to be a lot of hating women involved that I don't think is necessary.

Really? I see very little hatred of women. Do you have some evidence for this?

To answer your question, I don't think one can be an egalitarian and a feminist. I know there are feminists like you who consider themselves egalitarians, but in general those are contradictory. At some point you'll be faced with the choice between equality and feminism because they are sometimes in opposition to one another (your example of reproductive rights is one of them), and your choice then will put you clearly in one and outside of the other camp. Which that will be, we'll see.

DavidByron2 · 2015-03-08T17:51:28+00:00

You can't be a feminist and also be an MRA, antifeminist, egalitarian, rational or a decent human being.

Feminism is a hate movement.

2015-03-08T12:07:59+00:00

Feminism is female supremacy. Therefore you cannot be egalitarian and feminist.

Feminism seeks to reduce or remove men's rights - so you cannot be feminist and MRA.

unklestinky · 2015-03-08T10:40:57+00:00

I will say the same thing I posted in twox try asking this in /r/feminism and see how long it is before you are banned.

ParanoidAgnostic · 2015-03-08T08:52:45+00:00

It depends on the type of feminist you are.

If your version of feminism believes that men in general are privileged over women in general, and that men use their privileged position to maintain that situation, then it is not compatible with the MRM and, I would argue, not egalitarian.

If your feminism recognises that men and women have different privileges and issues, and that the the effect of these on each individual depends on context and a heap of other personal factors, then it is perfectly compatible with egalitarianism and the MRM.

GenderNeutralLanguag · 2015-03-08T14:06:59+00:00

Feminism is something different than egalitarian or MRA. Feminism is a religious cult founded upon waging eternal war against the great Satan "The Patriarchy", you know, men. Collateral damage is irrelevant because we will live in a utopia once this Great Satan is destroyed.

So yes you do have to pick a side. The sides are advocating for equality or Jihad against "The Patriarchy"

Also, MRA do not hate women. This perception comes from the fact that we are trying to stop the Feminist Crusade to eliminate masculinity.

2015-03-08T17:42:44+00:00

You cannot claim to be both a feminist and an MRA. They are contradictory and anathema to each other. Most of men's rights issues are directly caused by feminism. The only exception would be if you're an "individualist feminist" or "equity feminist" like Christina Hoff Sommers and Wendy McEllroy.

Number357 · 2015-03-08T18:37:26+00:00

Well most feminists are anti-equality, while most MRAs and egalitarians are pro-equality. So while a few people call themselves both, you will be on the fringes of one group or the other. It's simply impossible to be both a mainstream feminist and a mainstream MRA/Egalitarian because the very core of the movements are opposed. Do you believe men's issues are important and that we should stop ignoring them and stop treating sexism and violence as a one-way street? Mainstream feminists say no and that we should focus exclusively on women's issues and violence against women, mainstream MRAs and egalitarians say yes and want a more balanced approach to gender issues and violence

PM_ME_UR_PLANTS · 2015-03-08T22:18:46+00:00

Just get rid of ideas that don't stand up to criticism, and then move on.

guywithaccount · 2015-03-09T18:51:23+00:00

Since feminism is misandrist, you can't combine it with egalitarianism or MRM. MRAs can be egalitarians and vice-versa.

jtaylor73003 · 2015-03-08T09:01:04+00:00

FYI Feminism hates Egalitrianism too. The amount of women hating you see on MRAs has nothing on the amount of man hating Feminism, which isn't good at all. Remember Manspreading, Fart Rape, or Christmas is Oppression isn't about equality it is about hate. You do see a lot of anti-feminisim here, which is Feminism isn't good at all or hate of feminism if you like. Now I do have to ask do you believe in Patriarchy?

stratd · 2015-03-08T17:35:47+00:00

It depends on the branch of feminism. Most of the twox feminists are really egalitarian, and most of this sub supports mens rights without opposing women's rights.

Most of the feminist organizations are anti-egalitarian. The Duluth model comes to mind.

MadTrini · 2015-03-08T19:29:55+00:00

You could be whatever you want dude. I'm a shiny, egalitarian, Charizard

Nomenimion · 2015-03-08T16:10:07+00:00

You can be all of them, but you won't enjoy it. It's a whole lot more satisfying to choose sides.

Cant_Ban_All_MRAs · 2015-03-08T17:05:24+00:00

I do not like labels, and carefully choose when to apply them to myself. Depending on who I am with, I may be:

FEMINIST - Whenever I encounter, "men should be the leader of the household", "women should raise babies", etc. Gender roles can be descriptive but should never be proscriptive, so I stand up as a feminist when the tradcons appear. We are fighting for the basics of gender rights here, a battle started and sustained by Feminism.

ANTI-FEMINIST - The oversimplified and sexist applications of pop feminism annoy me to no end, but the real damage done in the areas of domestic and sexual violence makes me openly critical to almost all declared Feminists.

I believe feminism is needed to help with problems specifically for women, such as reproductive rights.

MRA - Whenever I hear Feminists like you say this, I follow the same path. By reproductive rights, do you mean birth control? And by birth control, are you mostly talking about abortion?

I am an MRA because I am a pro-choice male living in Canada where abortion rights are secure. So, if the Feminists are finished talking about female reproductive rights, we men would like to have a say now.

Reproductive rights rest on the recognition of the basic right of all couples and individuals to decide freely and responsibly the number, spacing and timing of their children and to have the information and means to do so, and the right to attain the highest standard of sexual and reproductive health. They also include the right of all to make decisions concerning reproduction free of discrimination, coercion and violence

This Wikipedia definition disturbs me because, as a man, I do not feel free to decide without discrimination, coercion, and violence.

EGALITARIAN - Like everybody else, I believe my views to be fair and balanced. Like everybody else, my views are quite often wrong. A label we all share is useless, so it is not surprising that the egalitarian conversations on gendered issues are some of the slowest paced available.

Because we all love our labels.

philwelch · 2015-03-08T20:57:01+00:00

The way I see it is very simple: feminists advocate for the interests of women and MRA's advocate for the interests of men. Sometimes feminists are right, and sometimes MRA's are right.

Title	Egalitarian, MRA, feminist, can you be all of them, a couple of them, or only one?
Author	nicetoall
Upvotes	14
Comments	54
Date	March 8, 2015 8:23 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2ybluv/egalitarian_mra_feminist_can_you_be_all_of_them_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/egalitarian-mra-feminist-can-you-be-all-of-them-a.986417 https://theredarchive.com/post/986417

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