California Legislature passes 'yes means yes' bill

TracyMorganFreeman · 2014-08-29T06:49:45+00:00

it's also not consent if the person is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep.

Well so much for couples having a glass of wine before the lovin.

The bill also requires colleges and universities to adopt "victim-centered" sexual-assault response policies and implement comprehensive programs to prevent assault.

I wonder what "victim centered" means...

The University of California, Berkeley was included on the list.

I am not surprised.

Let's take a look at the bill!

Providing that those an individual who participate participates as a complainant or witness in the an investigation of sexual assault, domestic violence, dating violence, and stalking, either as a complainant or a third-party witness, or stalking will not be subject to disciplinary sanctions for violations a violation of the institution’s student conduct policy at or near the time of the incident if the violations did not place incident, unless the institution determines that the violation was egregious, including, but not limited to, an action that places the health or safety of any other person at risk. risk or involves plagiarism, cheating, or academic dishonesty.

Oh protections for everyone involved except..the accused.

A comprehensive, trauma-informed training program for campus officials involved in investigating and adjudicating sexual assault, domestic violence, dating violence, and stalking cases.

Hey look, staff faculty will still be adjudicating it, meaning it's more of the same: It will incentivize witch hunts or sweeping under the rug, except now rug sweeping isn't allowed. Wonder what will happen...

Procedures for confidential reporting by victims and third parties.

Third parties as in...someone giving second hand testimony of claims of rape or wasn't there to confirm what occurred was rape?

Last I checked hearsay and not seeing anything wasn't admissable as actual evidence. Apparently here it is.

to the extent feasible, enter into memoranda of understanding, agreements, or collaborative partnerships with existing on-campus and community-based organizations, including rape crisis centers, to refer students for assistance or make services available to students, including counseling, health, mental health, victim advocacy, student advocacy, and legal assistance, and including resources for the accused

This looks like protections for the accused, but reading more carefully it merely requires existing resources to be used in collaboration with this new policy. It says make services available too, but if they refer to a lawyer-something that won't help them when it comes to school adjudication-they meet the wicket for the law and don't really do much for the accused.

Maybe after enough lawsuits the manner in which they comply will change, but we shall see.

If the Commission on State Mandates determines that this act contains costs mandated by the state, reimbursement to local agencies and school districts for those costs shall be made pursuant to Part 7 (commencing with Section 17500) of Division 4 of Title 2 of the Government Code.

I am no legal expert, but a quick googling suggests this means the state government will have to pay for the increased costs of implementing this program.

wyrn · 2014-08-29T04:45:52+00:00

California joins Sweden in the elevated status of place I won't set foot in, ever.

Congratulations, California.

JakeDDrake · 2014-08-29T04:14:13+00:00

I hope every student uses this. The inundation of litigation would be glorious.

ran0124 · 2014-08-29T08:35:51+00:00

In order to receive state funds for student financial assistance, the governing board of each community college district, the Trustees of the California State University, the Regents of the University of California, and the governing boards of independent postsecondary institutions shall adopt a policy concerning sexual assault, domestic violence, dating violence, and stalking, as defined in the federal Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. Sec. 1092(f)) involving a student, both on and off campus.

This means that it would affect students off campus as well.

Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time.

You gotta ask constantly throughout the sexual activity. Once the partner revokes consent, you have to pull out whatever it is that's in your partner immediately. No time limit given. Anything short of instant (even a delay of 1 second) and you fall under legally defined rape/sexual assault by this law.

Tl;dr Don't have sex with anyone while you're in school! If you're not in school, avoid students of any type!

Nomenimion · 2014-08-29T12:26:55+00:00

And this was done in reaction to a campus rape epidemic that only exists in the minds of delusional misandrists.

Capitalsman · 2014-08-29T07:16:40+00:00

Why don't we just get lawyers to draw a concent contract both parties sign with witnesses and it must be notarized? If we have to stop in the middle of a spontaneous event, both parties obviously concented on, and ask if we agree and shake hands on it why not involve lawyers and ink and paper too so one party can't turn around and say they didn't do the secret concent handshake.

leftajar · 2014-08-29T15:30:06+00:00

TL;DR: This basically opens the door to falsely accuse ANY guy of raping ANY girl. College girls have just been given carte blanche to get any guy kicked out of school.

TasteThePainbow88 · 2014-08-29T09:11:06+00:00

TIL if I was living in California, I'd be a rape victim.

humankin · 2014-08-29T08:42:20+00:00

the bill

Reading the bill, a few points stand out to me as wrong or worrisome:

(2) A policy that, in the evaluation of complaints in any disciplinary process, it shall not be a valid excuse to alleged lack of affirmative consent that the accused believed that the complainant consented to the sexual activity under either of the following circumstances:

(A) The accused’s belief in affirmative consent arose from the intoxication or recklessness of the accused.

(emphasis mine)

Imagine a man, drunk to the point of being barely aware of what's going on, has sex with a woman in a similar state - or even a less-drunk-but-still-unable-to-"understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity" state. Or even swap the genders (but let's be real here). Simply being accused means requiring one to be better able to make good decisions while drunk. This is as the bill as written and so what will be interpreted by university-run "courts" requiring a preponderance of the evidence.

(3) A policy that the standard used in determining whether the elements of the complaint against the accused have been demonstrated is the preponderance of the evidence.

This was never a good idea. Given the well-believed lie that 99% of rape accusations are true, any misinformed rational judge must, except where there's a lot of evidence that the accuser is lying, severely harm the long-term well-being of the accused by kicking them out of college on a rape charge. Presumably - though I don't really know - this makes it hard to get into another university.

This one is a doozy:

(4) A policy that, in the evaluation of complaints in the disciplinary process, it shall not be a valid excuse that the accused believed that the complainant affirmatively consented to the sexual activity if the accused knew or reasonably should have known that the complainant was unable to consent to the sexual activity under any of the following circumstances:

(A) The complainant was asleep or unconscious.

This is a kink and can be consensual. Not a huge deal as these go but the language here could be much better.

(B) The complainant was incapacitated due to the influence of drugs, alcohol, or medication, so that the complainant could not understand the fact, nature, or extent of the sexual activity.

Earlier I pointed out that this points a higher burden of responsibility on the accused solely for being accused. It's also insane for the same reason as (A): ongoing consent is possible without frequent affirmation.

(C) The complainant was unable to communicate due to a mental or physical condition.

This wording is too vague to judge. Or rather, it's vague so I judge it as terrible because it will be broadly applied.

Are conditions disabilities or would being bound and gagged count? They may have outlawed BDSM on college campuses.

(c) In order to receive state funds for student financial assistance, the governing board of each community college district, the Trustees of the California State University, the Regents of the University of California, and the governing boards of independent postsecondary institutions shall, to the extent feasible, enter into memoranda of understanding, agreements, or collaborative partnerships with existing on-campus and community-based organizations, including rape crisis centers, to refer students for assistance or make services available to students, including counseling, health, mental health, victim advocacy, student advocacy, and legal assistance, and including resources for the accused.

I only find this worrisome because these existing entities are reportedly grossly biased against men. To the point that men calling in for help are more likely to be accused of being an abuser than be given useful information. Actual assistance is incredibly rare. I would be much happier if universities were also required to provide these services if they don't exist, with language that makes it so that men and LGBT persons have to be supported.

The rest seems fine to me. I fully expect universities to do a terrible job protecting men and treating men as humans on par with women but this legislature doesn't affect that.

I can't help but conclude that the people who push for this standard - feminists - never ever expect to be on the receiving end of a rape accusation no matter how unfounded. Likely because they're 1) women or 2) men that think that they won't be accused of rape just because they aren't a rapist.

warspite88 · 2014-08-29T12:33:49+00:00

men need to just boycott colleges and start going to male only schools, simple as that and i promise you the feminozis will go ape shit!

notacrackheadofficer · 2014-08-29T15:15:05+00:00

10 strippers were arrested today for giving lap dances to patrons with shocking blood alcohol contents. They will be charged with aggravated sexual assault. Many of the arrested had brainstormed and organized their efforts around hypnosis based coercion, to induce the customer to take the step from observer, to body contact lap dancing. Some were profiled for weeks before being coerced, in an inebriated state, into the sexual contact filled lap dances.
Free instructions on eliciting sexual contact from inebriated people: http://stripper-faq.org/money.htm

Lavalle1 · 2014-08-29T05:40:12+00:00

Really? This is what California deems the best use of it's time and resources?

RavenousPonies · 2014-08-29T06:36:10+00:00

Can someone TL;DR the law?

Thanks

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2014-08-29T12:47:27+00:00

Silence or lack of resistance does not constitute consent.

I like how "implicit consent" is now referred to as "silence". As if impliedly going along with sex without a discussion first is the same thing as a deer caught in the headlights.

Salient0ne · 2014-08-29T19:03:51+00:00

Males have officially been banned from going to college in CA.

Pichler1 · 2014-08-29T06:04:25+00:00

No means no. Snoring means no. Passed out means no. Maybe means no.

mark_andero · 2014-08-29T05:50:03+00:00

What? Don't your lawmakers have something better to do than teach teenagers how to have sex in an appropriate way!

MidNiteR32 · 2014-08-29T18:01:35+00:00

Hey remember that slogan that SJW like to throw out...what was it?

"Keep the government out the bedroom"

So much for that now...

2014-08-29T21:30:47+00:00

Chivalry is shit.

Innocent men are going to be kicked out of school because of this.

The_Def_Of_Is_Is · 2014-08-29T05:19:48+00:00

[permanently deleted]

a_personification · 2014-08-29T07:23:27+00:00

Guys. Maybe you're missing what's going on here because you're not the sort to go around drugging girls, or looking for the most shit faced girl to set your pack on, film and distribute. I don't know if you get that this has been happening a lot, and I feel like you don't get it cos you're mostly not a bunch of creeps who would do this sort of thing.

More relevant; this is exactly the sort of language of consent that people need in order to be able to define female on male rape. We must move past the concept that the only way to say no to rape; is by fighting back violently. An erection is not a yes, being bigger than your rapist is not a yes. Being male is a not a yes.

Yes is Yes.

2014-08-30T04:29:00+00:00

What's wrong with holding affirmative consent as the standard for consent? It's the best protection for people accused of rape. If he/she said "yes," then you have that surefire, audible, proof of consent to a sexual act. If he/she doesn't say yes, what exactly is it that you think you're doing, anyway? Because it's probably not consensual sex.

Title	California Legislature passes 'yes means yes' bill
Author	TheThinMan34
Upvotes	82
Comments	109
Date	August 29, 2014 2:21 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2evshp/california_legislature_passes_yes_means_yes_bill/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/california-legislature-passes-yes-means-yes-bill.996388 https://theredarchive.com/post/996388

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