Can we win?

aussietoads · 2014-08-28T02:39:02+00:00

If you go back a mere 10 years you will find that men's voices in gender discussions were almost completely absent. Barring just a few voices in the wilderness, we could all have been mislead into thinking that men in general were happy with their lot and everyone had embraced feminism.

Then the internet took off in mainstream society, and men were able to access articles by other men and women that have been deliberately ignored or actively suppressed by mainstream media. Men, who were once too timid to express their true feelings about contemporary life because they felt were alone in their thoughts suddenly found that they weren't alone at all.

Now, not only have they discovered we are many, but also that many women also don't buy into the Feminist doctrine.

It has taken a long time for men's issues to be taken seriously by just a few, but the momentum is gaining. Change takes time and persistence.

Jumping the men's rights ship now is like clutching defeat from the jaws of victory. Don't give in to impatience. Now, more than ever, we need to maintain a forward momentum, which can mean anything from simply calling out the hypocrisy of others in your personal life to getting involved at a political level.

levelate · 2014-08-28T01:36:26+00:00

maybe, maybe not.

the real question is can you live with yourself if you stayed quiet?

injustice flourishes when people say nothing.

Methodius_ · 2014-08-28T07:01:41+00:00

One thing I would say you definitely need to do is find friends of yours that are sympathetic to MRM causes. I know that if I didn't have the two friends I have that agreed with me on these things (up until now it was one -- one was enough, but two is FAR better) I might've given up a while ago.

It's nice to have someone agree with you because it makes you feel like you're not crazy. And being an MRA in our feminist-driven society can very much feel like you're being gas-lighted: like you're imagining all of this stuff that you see around you, and you're the only one who sees it. Yes, random strangers on the internet agree with you, but it isn't nearly the same thing.

Lrellok · 2014-08-28T07:19:44+00:00

As an ex feminist and a anarchist-socialist, i feel i need to straightne a few things out for you. First, please read part I here

"In 1871 the Commune perished for lack of combatants. It had taken measures for the separation of Church and State, but it neglected, alas, until too late, to take measures for providing the people with bread." Kropotkin (even if you disagree with his ideals) is an excellent example of what an actual revolutionary sounds like, everything is planned, everything is supported by numbers and fact, to the finest detail. That said

They're more organised,

Ask a mainstream feminist some time where their "Kapital" is. Ask them what the feminist version of "Conquest of bread" is named. The answer will surprise you. THEY HAVE NONE! They have no plan at all, nothing. The one thing that caused me to leave feminism was the incoherent flailing, the grasping at any straw that seemed available to desperately remain relevant.

More importantly, they have no plan how they are going to deal with the predictable effects of their own agenda. As a share of output the wage gap has closed entirely at the expense of men. But how many feminists (mainstream) do you hear screaming that they cannot find financially stable men to date/marry? I hear a ton, and it tells me that their organization is shit.

they are bigger in numbers

That i am not so certain of. There is a difference between affinity group and policy position. EXAMPLE, the republican platform calls for cuts to social security and medicaid. However, most republicans oppose any cuts to social security and medicaid. The same is true of feminism. They have numbers only so long as no one pays any attention to the details. DO you seriously believe most (or many) feminists would support women having a legal obligation to financially support men? I attended antioch college, lemme tell you, they balk at having to buy a guy flowers (yes, i did challenge several of the feminists there to do that). They have no interest in actually being breadwinner for any households. If the core actually tried to invert genders, nearly the whole of their movement would vanish. Also, this

they get a shitload of media attention

Wyrn dealt with this, and i defer to her/him. Simply because your getting attention does not mean it is the attention you wanted.

hoobsher · 2014-08-28T21:06:55+00:00

i hope you all enjoy my work

HankSought · 2014-08-28T01:46:51+00:00

I've mentioned this in other posts, but it's worth repeating here.

If you spend all of your time thinking about fighting feminism and speaking to feminists, you will feel like the entire female population is against you.

As important as it is to discuss and breakdown feminist ideology/activism, it's just as necessary to foster positive communication/experiences with women.

The cognitive dissonance of one's world view goes both ways. It can skew feminists thinking ("all men are evil") and MRAs ("all women are feminist SJWs") as well.

Nomenimion · 2014-08-28T01:51:20+00:00

We will win. Always remember that we are on the cusp of a technological revolution unlike anything that has come before.

In the coming decades, it will become impossible for them to hoodwink people... at this point, we will have won.

Feminism cannot survive the truth.

DougDante · 2014-08-28T02:49:21+00:00

Why do we fight?

Because we help abused children

wyrn · 2014-08-28T02:56:50+00:00

I believe that yes, feminism will be defeated.

Feminism is, in some ways, inherently flawed. Its doublespeak permits it to exist at a sort of low level of general awareness: most normal people heard somewhere that feminists are "about equality" and believe that. Some might think that's a good thing but not care enough to join personally, or they might think that they're just a little bit eccentric and unnecessary.

The problem (for them) is that feminism is LOUD, and it's only getting louder. And when they scream, they draw attention. With attention, comes scrutiny. The Women Against Feminism thing is one example. The muggles also didn't seem too keen on how feminism reacted to the nail polish, either.

This to me seems to imply that feminism will inevitably reach a critical mass and destroy itself. It might take years or decades but it will happen. Unfortunately, that means diddly squat for the acceptance of the MRM.

Purplefood · 2014-08-28T07:46:11+00:00

I am somewhat new to this subreddit but surely it is not feminists that are the problem but misandrists. I mean equality between men and women seems like a reasonable thing to desire. Simply because you claim to be feminist does not mean you are one or that you are not a misandrist... I am in favour of men's rights in the same way I am in favour of women's rights. We're all just people it's just some people are arseholes.

govt_took_my_baby · 2014-08-28T08:59:50+00:00

You don't 'win'...

But seriously, feminism and other movements have paved a way - they've influenced how we perceive and address gender and equality issues, enough that people are starting to see the "other" sides to inequality. Essentially, feminism will be hoisted by it's own petard when their rules get applied equally, across the board - that's the arising problem we're seeing, they don't like it

chavelah · 2014-08-28T12:31:57+00:00

We are most definitely going to "win" in the sense that men are going to have more legal rights in the areas currently lacking, and more social freedom in the areas currently lacking, a generation from now.

You might want to stay the hell off Twitter and concentrate on reality.

Bla34112 · 2014-08-28T15:27:04+00:00

Are we not in the process of winning right now? I can hear the damm cracking all around us!

You're tired of it? Take a break. Do something else, we'll be fine.

I know this must feel like there is no progress happening when you're here in the trenches, but it is happening, and if and when you'll return a few month down the road, I don't think you'll recognize the climate anymore so much will have happened!

Lobstermansunion · 2014-08-28T19:29:47+00:00

It depends on what "winning" means to you.

If "winning" means seeing a good portion of the population agree with at least some of our worldview, I think this is possible.

If "winning" means men genuinely being treated equal to women, not in a million billion zillion years. Too many powerful people make too much money off of the disposability of men. That's a reality of human history.

Sorry.

Piroko · 2014-08-28T01:56:44+00:00

We can win, but not without a compromise.

Not a compromise with them. A compromise with the enemy of our enemy.

I have always been pro-choice but I realized that I am not compensated for being in that camp. It does nothing for me; and in fact costs me, albeit indirectly. Supporting it is blue pill.

The Republicans are going to take back the house and senate this year, there is no question of that now. They aren't a friend of this camp, but they're actively opposing something that our enemy supports, which is better than nothing.

We have to take the battle back onto the offensive. That means shifting the fight back onto abortion.

"We can't run away. If we stay here we can't shoot. So lets fix bayonets."

Title	Can we win?
Author	Maring_
Upvotes	9
Comments	26
Date	August 28, 2014 1:28 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2es5oh/can_we_win/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/can-we-win.996430 https://theredarchive.com/post/996430

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