"I don't see a problem with misandry, given our patriarchal culture, or maybe I'm just angry." - So sayeth my friends feed. Help. I am going nuts.

kioga86 · 2014-07-03T07:08:44+00:00

Pack it up and move on with your life man. If this social circle that you speak of is willing to congratulate one of their own for saying she is okay with misandry, then that's a social circle you should want no part of.

No need for a pissing contest, in the end you'll only be seen as the idiot who pissed all over his own shoes and yelled "see what you made me do." Better to count this group of people as a loss to a "progressive" society, and be better off for not associating with them any longer.

Rattatoskk · 2014-07-03T07:15:15+00:00

Oh gee man.. that's a tough call. If you drop out, you let them have an echo chamber with no imperfections.. no one to say "Hey.. maybe we don't pin all the problems on men alone today?"

Of course, the problem is with the toxicity of the environment. Who the hell wants to be relegated to a second class citizen all the damned time? These people are clearly bigots.

I've removed a good number of people on my FB feed. The thing is; at the end of the day, you need to be able to unplug. That means being able to check your email in peace, catch up with friends..

For a lot of guys, that's no problem even with the male bashing. Misandry rolls of their back like water off a duck. They don't care, or they've got male guilt so they think they deserve it, or whatever.

For you though? Dude, it gets to you. You don't devalue yourself like those guys. And you aren't about to sell your own gender for 30 silver or a chance at impressing one of the ladies or whatever the prize of the day for docility is.

It really comes down to this: Do you use FB a lot? Because if you do, This is going to cause you some stress. You'll be hanging in there just so you can come home after a really crappy day, log on, and get enraged looking at something that might as well be tailor made to invalidate you as a human being.

It'll happen. It's just a matter of time. Do you want to experience that over and over again? Your call. Is it worth it to me? Hell no. But it's not my life.

It's yours. So, is it worth it to you? To remain on the side-lines trying to gently navigate a conversation away from hate while watching your credit with these friends dwindle as you become known as a buzz-kill?

These people will drift away if you don't keep up contact. Is that contact bearable to you? And are the fruits of cultivating those relationships worth the effort?

Lurker_IV · 2014-07-03T08:24:22+00:00

You might try responding with this:

"I don't see a problem with antisemitism, given our jew-controlled culture, or maybe I'm just angry." - friend's name

And then ask her to come up with better evidence of patriarchy than the sort a neo-nazi would use to prove jew's control everything.

DavidByron2 · 2014-07-03T15:52:21+00:00

Feminists have often said that hating men is a good thing. It's one of those pieces of ideology that when challenged in public, feminists run away from. They tend to put it out there only when they feel they are in a "safe space".

yourpants · 2014-07-03T10:53:35+00:00

You're not gonna change their mind. I would just go.

TheThinMan34 · 2014-07-03T11:55:25+00:00

OP, never delete first. Shovel well thought and fact based arguments down their throats until they unfriend you.

avantvernacular · 2014-07-03T18:37:06+00:00

If they are okay with hating men and you are a man, then they are okay with hating you.

Friends do not hate their friends, and so they are not your friends. I'm sorry for your loss, losing a friend always hurts.

Gittiup · 2014-07-03T13:38:36+00:00

I'll give you an analogy of a similar situation. I had a friend who believed deeply in 911 conspiracy theories, very deeply for some reason. It was part of his core beliefs. He was always trying to persuade me with links, information etc... From my past experiences with him, I usually ignored him on the matter because he took it very personally for some reason if I disagreed with him and tried to have a debate about it. Initially he just became really upset, then the insults started. Personal ones. I had a history with him for over 20 years, but I realized if he want's a friend who agrees with everything he believes or says, I'm not his guy. I basically told him how I felt, and our relationship was over. The personal insults was an indicator to me he obviously had some other issues going on, which I sympathized with but I wasn't going to be his punching bag.

For your friends I'd say reverse what they are saying by inserting other group of visible people into their arguements but when they come out with statements like " I don't see a problem with being white man hater, given patriarchy" Patriarchy theory is a load of bullshit, something gender studies acadmics dreamed up in order to provide themselves with careers. Since it wasn't easy for men either back then either, war, women and children first etc.... So I think that's pretty much a lost cause your friend is so far down the rabbit hole it just be easier to cut them out of your life.

You're friend is a bigot who hates white males. If you're a white male it's a no brainer get them out of your life. If your not would you want to be friends who hated insert "visible group" anyways ? Would a black man be friends with a guy who said he hated N-word ? Nah, not for a second.

Up to you if you want to call them on their shit, but end it right after that don't engage them it will be a lost cause and an futile exercise of emotional frustation for you. I suspect like my 911 ex friend there's other issues going on with them, not your responsibility to fix the snakes in their heads.

MRSPArchiver · 2014-07-03T06:26:52+00:00

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AnthroPoBoy · 2014-07-03T11:24:13+00:00

First of all, don't feel like an ostracized leper. You say this is a group of old college friends. Do you still hang out with them, or is this only on Facebook? I say brush it off. If you feel like someone hates you, don't be friends with them. You deserve to surround yourself with people that make you feel better about yourself, not worse!

A woman I know created a topic about misandry in response to something Rush Limbaugh said. I made a comment that first-wave feminism said some "strange" things that may be why people feel a backlash against it today.

It would help give more context of what Limbaugh quote started this, how this related to misandry, and what your example about first wave feminism was in response. It's hard to evaluate without knowing what exactly the points were that were being raised on all sides. Limbaugh is certainly not a moderate figure, and has built his career on being controversial. Just knowing that, I can see how this sets the ground for a heated conversation where a lot of people would be infuriated. This doesn't excuse the quote about misandry in your title, but I'll address that directly in a bit. Here's some of his quotes that came up when I did a search for things he's said:

“Women should not be allowed on juries where the accused is a stud.” ~Rush Limbaugh, 1994 List of 35 Undeniable Truths

“Let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do — let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work.” ~Rush Limbaugh, radio show, Fall 1993

“We’re not sexists, we’re chauvinists — we’re male chauvinist pigs, and we’re happy to be because we think that’s what men were destined to be. We think that’s what women want.” ~Rush Limbaugh, claiming that women want men to be assholes, April 15, 2004

“You just gotta be who you are, and I think it’s time to get rid of this whole National Basketball Association. Call it the TBA, the Thug Basketball Association, and stop calling them teams. Call ‘em gangs.” ~Rush Limbaugh, another racist comment, December 8, 2004

“To some people, bankers — code word for Jewish — and guess who Obama’s assaulting? He’s assaulting bankers. He’s assaulting money people. And a lot of those people on Wall Street are Jewish. So I wonder if there’s starting to be some buyer’s remorse there.”

From this webpage.

Now, first wave feminism was about a hundred years ago and highlighted the right to vote, while Limbaugh is contemporary. To say that you can compare backlash today between the two is a little facetious. In fact, third wave feminism, which emerged slightly before Limbaugh's career, was built on a backlash to earlier feminist ideas. For example, they challenged the idea that women and men should be held to traditional gender roles without their choice, that women are always victims and men always aggressors, and a refusal of us versus them binaries in general (http://www.pacificu.edu/magazine_archives/2008/fall/echoes/feminism.cfm).

If someone says misandry is ok because our cultural is patriarchal, they are fundamentally misunderstanding what patriarchy is, at least in terms of the third (and most current) wave if feminism. Patriarchy is not about all men controlling all women. It's not about the level of the individual, it's about the social system that constrains us all. For example, men being looked at as financial providers more than loving fathers is a result of patriarchy, because it constrains men to traditional gender roles. The "White Knight" term you mention is a form of patriarchy because it suggests that women are weaker and need rescuing. The alpha/beta terminology of PUAs is patriarchal because it says men have to be a certain way and if they aren't they are less of a man, that a man's value on this alpha/beta hierarchy is tied to his attractiveness to women, and it ties sex, value, and power together in a way that affects a man's sense of self worth. In this case, it is men that are being oppressed and constrained by patriarchy. Similarly the "16." quote by Limbaugh is patriarchy because it ties a man's destiny to what women want. Finally, the "1." quote by Limbaugh is patriarchal because it suggests that a female juror can't think clearly and objectively if the defendant is attractive. But by using misandry, hating Limbaugh as a person, or men in general, we have done nothing to challenge the idea behind it all. This isn't effective.

So, if you've read all that, first, thank you. Second, I'm about to wrap it up and address the title head on. If a society or culture is patriarchal, it's not about the individual men and women, it's about the culture. Responding by saying its okay to hate men (misandry) because the culture is skewed (patriarchy) misses the point. It's ineffective because it doesn't address the actual culture of patriarchy, just blames all men. The majority of those in the highest ranks of power may still be men, but that doesn't mean that men's lives aren't negatively affected by patriarchy as well. (One has to be careful when discussing this within a feminist space though, because it may take away from a woman's power in speaking her mind within that space. But it doesn't mean that men don't also suffer because of patriarchy, just that a feminist space might not be the best place to deal with it. I think that is something a men's space like this could deal with instead of denying that patriarchy exists and placing blame on feminists instead. Blaming a whole diverse group like that is just as generalizing and ineffective as saying misandry is an appropriate response patriarchy.) Long story short, patriarchy is about a culture, and we should all direct our efforts at freeing our minds and society from its constraints, but misandry isn't an effective solution. Both men and women need to actually deal with changing patriarchal culture if we are to succeed.

I hope that helps, and I'm sorry you were so upset by this experience. It gets better.

slideforlife · 2014-07-03T11:24:41+00:00

I never unfriend anyone. They can do it to themselves if they want. And if something offends me, I usually say so and why -so long as I have the time and the inclination. It's usually quite a cathartic experience.

8bitsupera · 2014-07-03T14:01:00+00:00

Seriously people can say a lot of things on the internet, i dont take it personal when i know someone, this people want to show they have a opinion online but that dont change much about who they are. And by the way this kind of conversations will not go in a good way and will do no good at all, so if you can avoid it better for you, even that I know we should talk about it, but reality is, when someone make up his mind about "patriarchy" I instantly realize they are stupid and just dont take anything they say serious, they will be only repeating the same old ideas, better to avoid this, but you shouldnt cut all social circle because of that, people still people.

Crimson_D82 · 2014-07-03T15:35:44+00:00

The best part is white knights can rack up all the points they want but they only exist to them. Woman don't keep track and don't care. They never get to cash in those points. I've read many news stories and comments from women that they actually don't like white knights. Something about them being too feminine and not having a back bone.

Ask you friends how it is we live in a patriarchy when women get four times the medical spending, the right to biological integrity, aren't forced to sign up for the draft and never get a punishment that fits the crime? The truth is women get all the rearwards with only a fraction of the responsibility. That sounds more like a matriarchy to me. Especially since a woman can rape a boy and he is told to feel lucky and the women gets little in the way of punishment but if a man has sex with a willing girl he is given 10+ years in prison.

A true patriarchy would never harm a man like that.

chocoboat · 2014-07-03T16:35:24+00:00

I would ask her if it's ok to hate black people because one black person mistreated you once. Then, in case she didn't make the connection, inform her that she's doing the exact same thing by having a grudge against all men because of the actions of a few.

Underfolder · 2014-07-03T17:35:10+00:00

Just hide their posts from your timeline. It's what I do for all the feminists I know. Some of them are otherwise good people, so I don't want to cut ties completely.

As for feminism itself, one of its central tenants is that any criticism of feminism is an attack on women. The feminist worldview splits things into us versus them. Any feminist theory is correct and true, because it's created by "us." Anything that contradicts it is false, because it's created by "them."

DesignRed · 2014-07-03T18:37:53+00:00

Why would the hate the idea of cutting ties with ignorant people? You can make new friends, and you will put yourself through a lot less stress if you find those with some self knowledge and share your thoughts and listen to theirs. A year from now you will be a lot happier than being miserable with the friends you have now. You can't fix stupid, but you can stop enabling it.

guywithaccount · 2014-07-04T07:51:49+00:00

Do it.

Title	"I don't see a problem with misandry, given our patriarchal culture, or maybe I'm just angry." - So sayeth my friends feed. Help. I am going nuts.
Author	Cyrusk4
Upvotes	15
Comments	29
Date	July 3, 2014 6:26 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/29pyyi/i_dont_see_a_problem_with_misandry_given_our/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-dont-see-a-problem-with-misandry-given-our.998426 https://theredarchive.com/post/998426

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