Feeling torn

thebassoonist06 · 2018-11-09T01:18:25+00:00

You can box up either gender if you try. I could say all men just want an early twenties, attractive woman that they can enjoy then will dump her when she hits the wall. This is supported by such and such science that showed men are more attracted to younger women. Why should women build a life with a man? But everyday we see older couples that have something that works for them.

Find a woman that is your equal. Don't try to provide for her, she has her own income. Try not to be alpha or beta, they are lonely lives. Be yourself and be vulnerable. That's the only way to attract a person that will be vulnerable enough to actually love you back. Well adjusted people can sense fear, judgment, or guardedness a mile off and will run for the hills.

Difficult_Top · 2018-11-09T03:31:47+00:00

Founder of evopsych: "what we wrote was just garbage"

You can stop worrying now.

jonmatifa · 2018-11-09T01:28:24+00:00

The fundamental problem with the conclusions drawn from those types of studies is that they dismiss the fundamental humanity of women. We all experience our biology having a major influence on our impulses, that's a part of being a person. How many times have you been extra irritable when you were tired? Or used some alcohol, marijuana or prescription drug to influence your mood? There are countless factors in fact that influence our mood, energy, prefences, opinions etc. Some of them more influential than others. The problem is when you make broad generalizations based on trends that emerged in a limited context. Sure you can make lots of observations about aggregate human behavior in a group setting, but that fails to account for the individual. People tend to look like robots when you hold them up to that level of analysis, they appear to just simply react according to whatever their input is. Apply that perspective back on yourself, are you automatically attracted to women of a particular type and set of features? Or is that more of a tend overall with many different exceptions and added levels of nuance? You have to understand that things that are descriptive are not automatically definitive, far from it. The things that tend to make people interesting are the things that set them apart; the things where they deviate from the trends, they defy the statistics. Another thing to consider is how the general toxicity of our culture could be influencing a lot of women to have kind of toxic pretences. Culture has an absolutely massive impact on how we generally perceive attractiveness and although that has been shifting, we still tend to view relationships and sex as commodities. Even in red pill lingo you have the term "sexual market value" a reduction of human values into commodities. When men view women as commodities, they feel entitled to them and think of them as a way to fulfill themselves. When women view men as commodities, their prefences are usually aligned with dominance. But its essentially the same. Women are just people trying to figure this out too, and likewise they deal with all kinds of jadedness over nearly the same things. Unfortunately it comes out in toxic ways a lot of the time. You've got to roll with it. You gotta have the same kind of patience for others you wish they'd have for you. That and people are not commodities.

rrroqitsci · 2018-11-09T02:54:18+00:00

The change in women’s preference based on menstrual cycle, birth control, etc is simply an assertion that women are controlled by biology. The effects of biology on behavior has been well researched, and even the examples provided by other responses demonstrate that biology, or just physiology, can and does affect behavior.

If you follow this logic to the next step you’ll discover that male behavior is also controlled by biology and physiology.

So why bother? Red Pill / Blue Pill should not matter because it’s all biology.

There’s the erroneous conclusion that TRP doesn’t acknowledge. They seem to deny the role the frontal cortex plays in behavior of both women and men. (The frontal cortex is where thinking takes place and is able to override base instincts.)

The change in women’s preference based on menstrual cycle is means nothing because it denies human intelligence. Or at least it denies female intelligence, which demonstrates TRP’s misogyny.

tinmanshrugged · 2018-11-09T06:30:25+00:00

Men are more attracted to women who are ovulating - isn’t that the same thing?

iostefini · 2018-11-09T04:54:18+00:00

I think you're confusing hookups and relationships.

When women want to hook up with someone, yes they are often attracted to that dominant alpha-type guy (though of course there are exceptions, that's just a general trend). Those guys are seen as more likely to be sexually experienced and often more physically attractive, and if you're looking for a hookup or a short-term relationship, those are the things you want. (Most don't want children with a hookup.)

When women want a long-term relationship, they are going to be more attracted to a man they can trust, share intimacy and vulnerability with, and build a life together with (which you are calling "providers", but I think that title disregards the mutual love and support these types of relationships offer). They don't prefer those alpha-types at this point in their lives because they don't WANT a hookup, they want a relationship. (These are the people women would want to have children with.)

This isn't a dual-sexuality thing at all. This is just reality - people want different things at different stages in their lives. At the hookup stage, a lot of men are attracted to college girls who party a lot, sleep around, and will do crazy things. But most men don't want the hot mildly-crazy girl who parties all night long for most of their lives either - as they get older they'll want someone who pays more attention to practical things, like building a life together, raising children, making sure the rent is paid... etc.

The fact that women are influenced by their hormones is just another reality - men are also influenced by their hormones. E.g. If a man's testosterone level is low, his sex drive often suffers and he's less likely to be interested in sex or hookups. That doesn't mean he's a different person - he still has the same sense of humour, likes the same food, same movies, etc. And if a woman is on hormonal birth control, she's still the same person too. She might have a different preference for what her partner does, but she can still make decisions based on love for her partner (the same way a man who is low on testosterone may stay with a partner because he loves her, even if he doesn't need as much sex with her anymore).

trojan25nz · 2018-11-09T07:16:03+00:00

Isn´t womens preference for different types of males on birth control, during the menstrual cycles and ovulation proof of the "Alpha fux and Beta bux-theory"

Dang, I was recently reading a thread about some studies done in this, released within the last couple of months, that has sort of rendered a lot of the initial assumptions, about exactly what happens with women during their cycle with regards to attraction, bunk.

At least, the really extreme ones about only being attracted to rough guys when they're fertile, and then attracted to feminine guys the rest of the time...

IIRC, the findings suggested women pretty much like feminine man faces almost the whole time, regardless of their cycle, and attraction due to sweat samples, or pheromones weren't entirely supported anymore.

They did say there was still some effect influencing women with regards to attraction, but it's not as solid (women like menly men when fertile, and passive men when not)...

I can't remember where I saw it though, sorry. They obviously talk about it better than I do

meme100m · 2018-11-09T20:39:21+00:00

Studies also show that men prefer women with hour glass bodies while bear shape is the most common among women. What's the point of a bear-shaped woman being in a relationship with a man knowing that he would prefer an hour glass one instead?

it's worthless being in competition mood all the time. You just have to be you and see someone who is compatible. if they like you, they aren't thinking about what else is out there.

biological tendencies doesn't mean biological determinism. Attraction is multi factorial and can change as we gain more life experience.

Exredpill96 · 2018-11-09T10:10:52+00:00

I think these studies just show women a bunch of photos of different “types” of men when on the pill or not and different stages of their cycle and they rate attractiveness? It’s nothing to do with how a woman feels about the man she’s with. Most of my friends are married with kids. Some of us were on the pill when we met our partners, some went on, all came off to have kids etc. none of us changed our minds about how we felt about them depending on whether on/off the pill. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that some married women might under research conditions say they are more attracted to a “type” of male different to their husbands when ovulating than not, or the other way around, but it doesn’t make them suddenly not attracted to their husbands!

misiepatysie · 2018-11-09T13:45:38+00:00

Studies based on photos hardly show what a woman would do or to whom she will be attracted to. I can look ata photo of a particular men and tell if he is in my opinion handsome or not. Just as I can state if a woman is pretty or not. It does not yield any additional context. Saying a man is handsome does not mean I would be eager to have sex with him. It just means I find his face pretty. I met a bunch of pretty/handsome man and I would never trade my SO for any of them, cause I do not love them.

BlueAscetic · 2018-11-10T01:42:30+00:00

Your thoughts and fears on this are valid, but off the mark.

I say this because a woman who wants to be faithful to you, will. A wise person, or woman, knows her fluctuating hormones are normal and expected. Everyone desires other people of the opposite sex, even people who aren't their partners that they are and stay loyal to. Again: everyone is naturally sexually inclined to people of the opposite (or same, or whatever) sex. It's natural, and normal.

I've been attracted to many men, but I know the reasons why and it's not particularly because I'm a female.

You could also be a woman, asking "why should I try with men, when they will just choose someone prettier/nicer/better at cooking and conversation?" - why would you pick that type of man in the first place, who you are afraid will leave you and are obviously not loyal or satisfied and in love with YOU as you are?

In addition, I've been attracted to men who are not particularly alpha, better than, or whatever than my current partner. Sometimes they're downright assholes, but they're masculine.

What will attract a woman of worth and value the most is if you value and put worth on yourself in a healthy way. That's what "hypergamy" theorists don't seem to get in the whole "she'll take an alpha over a beta" idea. Women don't want assholes who are confident, we want nice guys who both treat us with respect and treat themselves with respect. When we see a man give us everything we ask for without discrimination, we subconsciously (maybe, I can't speak for all women) believe he won't be strong enough to stand up for himself (not in a physical or abusive way) and connect with himself on a level that goes beyond what we've ever seen, enough to respect both himself AND us.

I know that's too much, and I shouldn't be on here, but I just wanted to give you my perspective, as a woman.

rhowena · 2018-11-09T03:43:24+00:00

I think the main thing not being taken into account is romance. As a woman, when I hear "beta" I picture the kind of endearing cinnamon roll qualities I would look for in a boyfriend/potential husband, which I personally find far more appealing than the thought of an "alpha" who will give me orgasms and nothing else.

T7773 · 2018-11-09T12:27:13+00:00

OP

I think REDPILL ‘truths’ shine in PRACTICE as compared to theories and studies, even in as much as REDPILL proponents like to quote studies.

One May shoot down the REDPILL as much as they want but when you’re out there dealing with a random woman away from the studies and the blogs then you’ll see the world for what it is.

I think The commenters above all make cogent points.

But the problem with denying the REDPILL is the fact that as a man you can adjust to your own tune, make yourself valuable and worthy by being hardworking and responsible person with a pure and genuine heart, but then you meet a woman that takes advantage of all that, especially after you’ve fallen in love with them.

That’s it. You can be the best version of yourself without leaning on how people have defined masculinity (REDPILL) but there’s no way to know that the women that come into your life are genuine, as some may screw you over no matter how good you are, sometimes even after a long period of time!

While it is true that some good women get taken advantage of by bad men, there are by far more good men who are taken advantage of by bad women, especially factoring how it is men who invest resources into trying to have working relationships with women.

In as much as i am post REDPILL, I feel society has reached a point of no return in terms of destruction of genuineness in socio-sexual relations, with the hook up culture taking root and more and more men and women trying to learn how to be manipulative in relationships instead of being genuine honest people.

I feel for honest women. I also feel for honest men. I use the REDPILL as a shield not a sword.

Title	Feeling torn
Author	Exredpill96
Upvotes	10
Comments	28
Date	November 9, 2018 12:25 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/9vfm1s/feeling_torn/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/feeling-torn.299958 https://theredarchive.com/post/299958

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