I’ve been discussing on another sub all day with feminists of all sorts. I’ve had some really good faith discussions and some people pushing anti-intilecual narratives as well. As such, I’ve come to this conclusion.

Simply put. Feminism is ultimately about gender equality which does include female empowerment, but many people claiming to be feminist think it’s just about empowerment and take it to the other extreme. This ultimately is because they don’t really understand the ideology or movement and it’s goals.

I’ve also since come up with this analogy that I feel fits very well. A great response to anyone saying “equality feels like oppression when you have your privileges taken away so shut up and deal with it” (I’m paraphrasing of course)

“Inequality is when one person has a cookie, and the other does not. Taking away the cookie or splitting it in half still doesn’t really fix the issue. Giving the other person a cookie does.

I don’t want anybody that already has cookies to have to split them in half or give them up entirely. I want everyone to have a cookie.

With that said, have a cookie 🍪”

Now it should be noted that there are still those who essentially say “once woman’s issues are taken care of, maybe we’ll care about mens issues” which of course is extremely counter-productive. I even asked them why men should care about feminism and womens’ issues if they won’t care about ours. Which I’m essentially met with “it’s the right thing to do and if you have to give up things for us, too bad. We’ve suffered so now it’s your turn”. These were the same ones that also told me misandry is an excuse people use and throw at women cause they’re actually misogynistic and that basically, there is no real misandry. One even pulled the whole “bigotry cant be done by marginalized groups” and some came very short of telling me that I’m part of the problem just cause I’m a man. Some also said my part as a male feminist is to shut up and hold other men accountable. Nothing about holding women accountable though of course. To these people, there really is no reasoning with them so we have to cut our losses.

It doesn’t help the the sub actually has a mega thread espousing a bunch of really harmful or at least unhelpful stuff for men. And their views on sex workers and porn is actually antithetical to feminism as well. Plus they’re very clear that they think “once abortion is free and does not cause stigma, we might be able to discuss the possibility of paper abortion. Disgusting stuff to say the least.

But there are legitimately good people I talked to that had a real discussion with me on these matters. For that I am very grateful.

I think an important thing to understand is that both MRA’s and Feminists have many bad actors and use it as a shield for their misogyny and misandry respectively. Some people are just bitter and will hide behind a movement to intact their harmful views and ways of being. But remember as well that there’s always good people to talk to as well. And more often than not, even if you disagree at first, you’ll find you have more in common with them than not and can come together for solutions on issues.

Anyway I just wanted to share this with you all.

Thanks.