I wish I was wrong

MelissaMiranti · 2021-06-09T06:22:28+00:00

The despair of truth.

AskingToFeminists · 2021-06-09T07:34:07+00:00

Many of us are at the same point. My life would be so much easier if I could just accept feminism and all it has to say.

It's no fun to be convinced that one of the major dominant political movement of today is actively trying to hurt people because of who they are.

It's no fun to be in a movement hated by pretty much everyone in power, and characterized as some kind of extreme hate group.

It's not fun to sound like some kind of conspiracy theorist when you start to explain what's going on with the industry of domestic violence, or how the states are scamming their citizens with child support in an unbreakable chain of unplayable debt and prison sentences.

It's no fun to see how feminism acts, the instability it causes to our societies, to the point I get worried about how long this can keep going on before either it just collapse under its own weight or we get conquered by some sort of totalitarian hell where people like me tend to be amongst the first to face the wall, no matter the brand of totalitarian.

It's no fun. But the data is what it is. The history is what it is. And I am not able to ignore that, nor can I turn a blind eye to the sufferings of my fellow men.

I wish feminism was right. Very much. But if wishes had wings, pigs would fly. And we have to deal with reality as it is.

The most frustrating thing is that most people simply refuse to engage, which means that no matter how much you wa't to be proven wrong, they're not even willing to try, no matter how reasonable and attached to truth those people are supposed to be.

I've recently been banned from AskHistorians, which generally has a good standard of discourse and a reasonable expectation of caring about truth, sources, and so on, simply for posting a question (one extremely similar to a question that had been posted earlier) and having my post history.

I laughed at just how bad the message from the mod team was. They didn't want the answer to their questions to be "ammunition to be used elsewhere". As if some historical truth were not good to be mentioned, and should be kept in the dark. I mean, that's the only interpretation I can have. The only way an answer to a question on history can be "used as ammunition" is if there is a truth that some group doesn't want to acknowledge. If nobody has issues with anything that is said, then it can't be ammunition. And if the answer were to show my expectations were false (like the person who asked me to post that question so they could answer told me), then it wouldn't be "ammunition" for me to use.

But hey, no counter-narrative fact ever allowed, I guess. I just wasn't aware that in order to be allowed to post in askhistorians, one had to subscribe to a certain ideology.

I guess asking people to explain why they say you are mistaken is not allowed, and not enough of a show of good faith...

Jazzlike-Parsley-566 · 2021-06-09T07:21:08+00:00

Hope you're well, buddy.

The part that surprises me most is that facts just seem to anger people. Confronting people with the facts when they state something that is untrue never seems to work, it gets people defensive. I've stopped even mentioning facts about men's problems and started just asking questions in return.

"Why are men the majority of the homeless?"

"If the problem with men is toxic masculinity, why do so many criminals come from fatherless homes? Wasn't there less masculinity around to encourage that behaviour?"

"If men cater the world to other men, why does no first world country in the world have a ministry for men's health?"

I can't say I've swayed anyone but I've tried just planting seeds of doubt.

az226 · 2021-06-09T07:29:24+00:00

20% of suicides are committed by women.

This is a big problem and we need to provide better resources to women so we can reduce that number.

-Society (undersigned by the Patriarchy)

SonOfHibernia · 2021-06-09T22:09:08+00:00

Because you’re not wrong. The truth can be a terrible thing. But it doesn’t have to stay that way. Snd all these studies being done about men, fathers, and their relationships to children, that our turning out more and more positive in comparison to women. Once these studies become mainstream, as well as their ideas, and the destruction of the “women are wonderful” myth, our society and lives will start to change. I think it will begin with the courts, first family courts, then equal sentencing, then more mainstream ideas about men and women and gender bias women have towards boys, leading to more male teachers and role models. Things are on the way up, don’t despair too much. The more people, including women, that come into contact with, and are screwed by toxic feminism, the faster things will change.

schmadimax · 2021-06-09T11:02:53+00:00

I wish I was wrong too, it seems every conversation I have is met with that last woman you talked about. It always ends badly.

cakeandcoke · 2021-06-09T08:39:20+00:00

I always feel like not one of the other girls when I speak up and say this but, there really are women who do understand. Myself and my best friend agree on these things. We are women in our 30s.

I've had lots of productive conversations with men that I've met off of these men's subreddits about men's issues, and also about the struggle of meeting a woman who understands. I've come to the conclusion that the reason my friend and I are understanding is because we are self-sufficient women who come from small towns. Women from small towns or from outside of a city are more familiar with doing men's work and more familiar with supporting men who do hard jobs and something about that has just made them more understanding of men's issues. Of course this is all anecdotal but this is pretty much the sum of a bunch of the conversations I have had.

Biolog4viking · 2021-06-09T09:14:17+00:00

One concern I have is the possibility the men left behind by society becomes easy targets for the far right to recruit.

adam-l · 2021-06-09T07:03:49+00:00

It's a political issue. And as with all political issues, change requires application of power, i.e. force, rather than discussion.

friendofalltehworld · 2021-06-09T08:55:05+00:00

You're not wrong. Don't date in college. Don't get married and don't have kids. That's most of your major problems avoided. Or if you do get married, only marry a woman willing to financially support you to be a stay at home husband. Then endure the horror, the horror! of light home duties and raising kids in a loving and wholesome environment. Make sure to loudly complain at every opportunity how your 'unpaid work' makes you no better than slave while shopping for new clothes and meeting your friends for a coffee morning to perform your 'emotional labour'. Maybe get an easy part time job with a short or no commute that 'fulfils you' emotionally. Then you can complain you work a double shift!

The_Mura · 2021-06-09T17:45:00+00:00

I've encountered this same attitude from people. People who believe in patriarchy don't really want to argue about anything. To them, it is easier to just go along with the narrative. Just pointing out the ways that life sucks for men too made me a social pariah. It's so ironic to me, because through a certain lens, I could easily argue that women are and have always been a privileged class. For every pre-modern woman that wanted independence, there were probably 5 or so that were fine with being mothers and playing a secondary role. Sure was safer that way. Women have been privileged to not have to be risk takers for pretty much all of our evolutionary history. Even today many women still hold this wish that they could marry a man that makes enough money that she doesn't have to work. Many women would rather be alone than be with a man that doesn't make more than them.

I could go on, but the point is not to rant about women. The point is that just like feminists have painted a narrative that says men have so much privilege, I could also paint a narrative about how much privilege women have. Everybody is advantaged in some ways, and disadvantaged in others. And to me, to single out men in this manner seems so unhealthy. The world owes to much to the efforts of men for us to make men and "masculinity" the villain. It owes all the infrastructure, all of the stability, most of the science and medicine, and most of the technology to the efforts of men. And yes it is true that men do terrible things, and that our capacity for evil is generally greater than the average woman's. This is a reality that we would fix in an ideal world, but we are fighting against millions of years of evolution. Unhealthy emotions like jealousy and anger are deeply biologically motivated, so overcoming them is not a simple task by any means. And for women, expressions of unhealthy emotions are far more permitted. A woman becoming irate in public is looked on less severely than a man doing the same. When a man is irate in public we subconsciously, perhaps even instinctively, think that he is a potential mortal danger. But if a woman does this, we don't fear for our lives, because women are less dangerous. So for men, this makes expressions of unhealthy emotions forbidden in most circumstances.

But how can a person get over negative emotions if they can't express them? Maybe it's just the way I'm wired, but I've found that if I am angry about something, I will not get over it until I express that anger at the problem directly. I had a relationship fall apart on specious terms, and whenever I tried to talk about my feelings to my male feminist friends, they would always tell me some version of, "She doesn't owe you anything, get over it." How is that message helpful to a guy that has been hurt? For me it did not. I felt like I had been betrayed, but everyone was telling me that my feelings didn't matter. And to that I say, if my feelings don't matter to you, then your feelings don't matter to me. My hurt didn't just go away, like it seems to in other people. I went to therapy, I did a lot of self-reflection, I tried shrooms, I explored other hobbies, but none of this made the feeling of hurt and anger subside whenever I would think about it. What finally helped me move past this was literally unleashing my raw emotion at her, in the form of online harassment. And I know that's not a "healthy" way to get over things, but it had been five years and nothing else was working, and that's also a lot better than causing her any sort of harm, which is what some men would do. What I did was toxic, but I might not have been driven there if people would've simply given my feelings some dignity. As a man, I was offered no real support, which is par for the course.

just_some_dude_blah · 2021-06-09T16:05:32+00:00

Ok let me take a stab at proving you wrong. Most of the males rights issues arent really that bad. Men are mentall resilient. They can change their situation by getting educated getting a good job speaking well with others and making effort to accomplish what they want. Its when they lose hope and make no effort tantamount to not peddling when on a bicycle will cause you to crash and fall. Now women are physically weaker and vulnerable and thus they cant even get outside to work on anything they want without constantly looking over their shoulders. Heck ive seen some girls who were ao weak they had a hard time fighting against the guat of wind. Lastly years of male domination over women. If they retract any of the advances they have made we can all recoil back to those days. Lets have this discussion, im very much interested to see where this goes.

a-man-from-earth · 2021-06-09T06:51:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	I wish I was wrong
Author	lightning_palm
Upvotes	174
Comments	50
Date	June 9, 2021 5:53 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/nvoj1r/i_wish_i_was_wrong/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/i-wish-i-was-wrong.1061142 https://theredarchive.com/post/1061142

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