Realization

senove2900 · 2022-07-26T15:17:05+00:00

You can't make a decent, ethically coherent view out of any form of idpol. The minute you reduce people to a set of identities is the minute you start assigning individual blame and merit for things that individual often has no part of. Universalist values are how you elevate yourself above this quagmire, and arrive at an ethically sound, applicable position.

Case in point, "privilege" is a horrendous framework to work from. It automatically casts issues in terms of identity groups, and no amount of lip service can (or does, in practice) allow for individual variation. "Injustice" is what you want to condemn, such as people being blamed or raised up on account of nonsensical reasoning, such as racism or sexism.

TisIChenoir · 2022-07-26T05:00:39+00:00

There is also the fact that toxic masculinity is, in part, enforced by women. They can tout that men should be able to show emotions and cry all they like, I know of enough examples in my social circle of women getting completely turned off my a man showing vulnerability and sadness that I'd be weary to show any "weakness" in front of most women.

For example, I've a friend who suffered a motorcycle accident, lost his job (his employer went bankrupt) and lost an uncle in the same month. Understandably, he was a bit upset, and ended up breaking in tears in front of his gf of 5 years. Who dumped him right here and there because, well, according to her own words, "she can't deal with his negative emotions and she thought he was stronger than he was". She somewhere also said later she was disgusted to see him like that. Let me tell you, he was a wreck of a man for quite a while.

I'm not saying that all women are like that. My gf is incredibly supportive, and I can show her any emotion, she's proven to be attentive annd comprehensive. But I know if I was single, I'd be extremely wary with any new gf, because they don't like a man crying.

Better_Repeat · 2022-07-26T08:32:36+00:00

Perhaps the most egregious example of victim blaming is when the fact that men are most often victims of violence, particularly random assault, is soundly dismissed because it's 'male-on-male violence'. It's either direct tribalism or a deliberate effort to exploit tribalism in others. The fact is that people are generally a lot more tolerant towards all kinds of violence against men; in fact, I am confident that one could make a compilation of all the unwarranted violence inflicted against male characters in childrens' TV that would be at least a hundred times longer than a similar one for female characters would be. Now tell me, against whom is violence really normalised?

It's important to note that many of these sexist constructs and gender roles are intricately linked with class, though this is an uncomfortable fact for the bourgeoisie academics and journalists who definitely do not want to acknowledge their most powerful privilege of all - that of class. The rules do not apply equally across class boundaries - rich and influential men can more easily avoid the draft, and certainly avoid the front line in any case. While the poor men who had very little say beyond a token vote in a malformed democracy are propped up as cannon fodder, those men who maintain the draft will be a more comfortable distance away from the conflict acting as 'officers'.

DouglasMilnes · 2022-07-26T11:17:23+00:00

When MRAs try to fix things, it is mostly feminists who get in the way. They demonstrate and campaign against us merely talking about men's issues. They noisily disrupt meetings discussing men's issues and do not stop at illegal activities just so that men (and caring women) are unable to fix men's problems. When we push for legislation to help men and children, feminists resist us with every trick and turn and lie.

So when feminists say that men should fix men's problems, do not pay the slightest attention to them. As far as possible, you would be well off to not pay attention to feminists at all.

ChimpPimp20 · 2022-07-26T21:51:08+00:00

Now, tying this back to feminism, if a woman has a privilege, like for example, not having to experience being drafted, it's her job as the person with privilege to dismantle it, not the person that is disadvantaged by it. This is especially important since feminism is the biggest and most powerful gender equality movement. The responsibility of dismantling privileges lies on them.

I think that this idea can be dangerous considering this is the same idea feminists use to keep men quiet whenever we bring up problems that we face whether black, white, brown, etc. I don't think telling women this will make this any better. I really like the mentality South African activist Steve Biko had in saying that they needed the white man's help in order to move forward. We need each other. Telling each other "well, you started it/enforced it so you finish it." It comes off as deflective and pretty bogus.

Let's not just point the finger at people. I don't like it when feminists do this but I'm not gonna tolerate this idea either.

Jonathanese · 2022-07-27T04:01:25+00:00

Yeah this is an issue I have with cultural Marxism. Marxism's class warfare works with economic classes in the case of large economic disparities because the disparity in power is clear and pretty much all-encompassing. Race less so. Gender quite a bit less so. I consider the class-warfare argument to be more of a last resort in extreme cases, rather than something you can brush over any place where you see a disparity in power.

Though your initial comparison sounds familiar for another reason. It's the excuse people have for crime rates in black neighborhoods. Disregarding it as "it's mostly black-on-black crime". While statistically true, it is usually made with an implication that crime is inherent to that group. While we have long understood that poverty is the root cause, and that poverty is racially slanted. It's this "find the root cause" thinking that I wish we did more of with men.

Women do make up the majority of voters, which my takeaway from that is less "You're voting this into power" which is more useful as a clapback to "Men caused this". Instead, my takeaway is more of the myth of power through representation. A counter to the idea that men in power work specifically on behalf of all men. The point being, even now that women are the majority of voters, they're still clearly not being represented, and the same goes for when men are the majority.

I'd still say there are certain cases where the majority of political power being men does favor masculine thinking on a societal level, the mistake is assuming this is inherently to men's benefit or that "men" as a monolithic group are represented by this.

One way to look at this would be to look at women's magazines vs men's magazines. A lot of the "photoshopped beauty", weight loss articles, and other stuff are often written by women in women-owned magazines. Men's magazines usually advertise graphics cards or protein supplements with pictures of fit men. If it was all about the male gaze, you would think men's magazines would be littered with photoshopped women. To say "women are represented by these magazines, and therefore benefit from them" is an oversimplifcation at best, and often more wrong than right. By having women write articles and advertise a women's magazine, women know women's insecurities better than men, and thus the exploitation of women is especially potent because they are represented by women.

Now, unfortunately this is often turned into "The patriarchy hurts men, too." which comes full circle to your original point. To say "men did this to themselves" is to pretend we have so much more power to change it than they do, just because we share genitalia with certain powerful people. We aren't loaded with power, in the same way the average women isn't loaded with power to change the advertising in Cosmo.

hendrixski · 2022-08-01T11:01:17+00:00

This chart is incomplete. Not only do a larger percentage of female eligible voters vote, also a larger percentage of women are eligible to vote in the first place. AND there are more women than men.

In 2020 82.2 million women voted, 72.5 million men voted. That's 9.7 million more women than men who voted. Or 6.2% more women than men. Let's be honest about who voted to overturn Roe v Wade.

Son_of_Sophroniscus · 2022-07-26T23:47:31+00:00

Let's say a white person has a certain privilege, a black person points this out. The white person says he didn't ask for this privilege, that it was his racist ancestors or racist politicians/members of the government that granted him this privilege that he didn't ask for.

Does this sound familiar to you?

Sorry, but no. I work side by side with people of all different colors and last thing on our minds is this sort of thing.

AdamChap · 2022-07-26T20:18:09+00:00

I am waiting for many left wing people here to realise the dichotomy between men and women and black and white is the pretty much the same, and it's perhaps the worse thing about the current year, and about the least progressive thing progressive people have brought upon us.

mohyo324 · 2023-08-07T04:55:16+00:00

My friend i know this post is a bit old but i had a question if you saw my comment

The black person in question would say that he wasn't oppressed by black people but by white people therefore it's the white people's fault

Now switch it to men and women

Feminists will say this to say that any problem happening to them is men's fault and any problem happening to men is men's fault too?

Title	Realization
Author	bloodfuel
Upvotes	102
Comments	40
Date	July 26, 2022 4:11 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/w89sya/realization/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/realization.1124792 https://theredarchive.com/post/1124792

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