MRP and marriage: Mods answer

MRPCowboy · 2016-05-05T00:00:26+00:00

Don't get pulled into RPS's weak frame. We had this discussion here already and he chose to tuck tail and run away rather engage in actual debate.

[deleted] · 2016-05-05T10:48:11+00:00

Do whatever the fuck you want

Nothing more to add.

FalkorD · 2016-05-05T13:50:29+00:00

They are apparently introducing a new flair for threads specifically about marriage. I don't know why I would go to a sub full of young, angry sperges who have never been married to get advice about marriage. RPS seems to want to consolidate all RP discussion under his direction supervision but the reason these offshoots exist is because TRP is not conducive to every single facet of Red Pill thought. It's specifically for young, angry men.

[deleted] · 2016-05-05T16:21:17+00:00

Not a MOD, but for some fucked up reason, some people may give a shit what I have to say. So:

In a common law marriage. It's time in, not something you have to 'do', welcome to canada. 8 years in. Absofuckinglutely not getting married. I've let my current know this from the start, and never left any room for ambiguity. I also not only don't suggest it for anyone, but will actively run through the shit show I have seen it for.

I'm a first year millenial, last year genX, depending who you ask. I watched my first divorce up close and personal. Fault on him in this one, but still, he didn't do well.

On the second marriage, over the 13 years before I moved out. I watched at least 20 friends of the family divorce. I remember 1 that they are still together. 1.

Some of the guys were shitty men, but others were not. Though one by one, divorced. If they wern't shitty men before that, they sure as fuck were afterwards.

Moms on divorce number 2 now, she's not a bad lady, it just clearly was a shitshow, and they stuck it until the last one left for college/work.

then joined the navy. Holy shit. If you have any pedestal left for women, that place will kill it. I now know 5 close friends who are married. one stepped back into it after a shitty divorce. So beta he cheated on her with a fat cow because she wouldn't 'OK' him leaving. One was baby trapped from a 35 year old when he was 28. He's making the best of it, but could have done so much better. I have a suspicion that he's out when the last kid leaves for college, or is too tired to try again, whichever comes first. One had a college girl with ambition.... That the wedding sapped out of her. The word dependapotamus gets thrown around a lot. He has his child, he loves it dearly, but when the rest of us have moved on and made better lives, he talks about it as a small resentment for being left behind. Great attitude, not ideal situation IMO.

2 are doing well. Frenchmen man childs with asian wives. Rural girls, grew up in towns where people still shit in a hole in the ground. I see them going well, but it doesn't get more old school than a rural chineese girl.

1 is a TFA type. power couple, earning around 200k between the two of them. Father was basically breeding top quality women, raised them right. Not marriage 1.0, but it's the exception that proves the rule.

among the crews en masse? A horrible den of misery. Divorces are like SSRI's and painkillers (free and easy) cheating is rampant. It's so bad, it's cliched e.g. The TIDE box in the window, going to the Native bar the weekend after a deployment starts, and seeing the sea of soccer moms looking to 'have fun' outside their social circles. I'm talking at least 100 examples from my career of people I knew. It completely dwarfs the examples above which don't look so bad by comparrison.

Would I do it again? I wouldn't even do it the first time. I've seen roulette wheels with better odds. If it was only fuckups, I could at least think you can 'alpha' your way out of it. But I saw good men. Maybe not great men, but good men. And they were chewed up like the rest of them. Some bounced back, but I find that to be a horrible aspiration... to bounce back from being fucked.

Manipulated Man was a watershed moment for me. If I get a lifelong companion, it will be on my terms, and I will not put my self determination in the hands of people who tend to make a lot of money by denying it for me.

SorcererKing · 2016-05-04T23:32:51+00:00

I'll go.

Getting married is categorically a bad idea in the United States, and I always advise against it both on MRP and IRL. The marriage contract offers men no value, and there is nothing inherent in a marriage that men can't get out of a well-managed LTR. For the sake of clarity, I also don't recommend LTRs for single guys. My ideal plate situation that I recommend is to have 3 in rotation.

Another thing I don't recommend is divorce rape, so if guys come here looking for advice on how to salvage their marriage, I think we should teach them how to be men and see if that doesn't help the rest. Because truly it is masculinity that is in trouble, not marriage. There is a whole generation of guys who were raised on the internet to believe the Blue Pill lies at the same time women were being Uber-empowered to believe they can live consequence-free lives. So let's get the foundation in shape and we'll see to the walls.

While I don't apologize for the vitriol on TRP, I also don't deny it. I understand how a guy at the end of his rope wants better advice than "Next her!" He wants to get advice from guys who've been there and come out the other side for better or for worse. That's the unique product MRP currently offers that TRP can't: the married guys hang out here and have a perspective the unmarried guys can't.

On TFA: I get where's he's coming from, but I don't agree fully. The question if "would I do it again" is abstract; there are no do-overs. I can say this: if my current marriage ends I won't be getting remarried. Either way, I see no imperative that all mods agree on everything. TFA brings a lot of value to this sub, and that's all that should matter.

BluepillProfessor · 2016-05-05T03:28:08+00:00

Don't Get Married

Time for another rant about marriage from BPP. I have said many, many times that modern marriage is a fraud. Men promise to have and to hold from this day forth and forsake all others, except only the forsaking all others vow is socially or legally enforced. All that having and holding and submitting that my religion teaches is TRUE "marriage" is absent in the fraudulent institution that bears the same name today.

Everything is dependent on the woman. She has the power to end it on a whim for any reason or for no reason. She will get the house, the car, the kids, child support, and complete social support to yougorirl and you don't need no man. She will most likely very quickly maneuver you out of your entire social group.

She can lie and have you put in jail. She can lie and prevent you from even seeing your children for years at a time. She can turn the kids against you and completely alienate them from the worthless deadbeat dad. She will live in the house and you will live in a small apartment in the inner city. She can lie with impunity and there are no consequences. She can be a crack dealer and will get custody of the kids. There is no social pressure to "not" lie. There is no legal pressure because nobody cares. They do it all the time. They lie to your face, and then they tell you they didn't lie and that you are the one lying about their lies.

My brothers, THAT is "The Red Pill." Take the Red Pill and realize the nature of women. They don't love you the way you think you will be loved. They love opportunistically and will leave you at the worst possible time in your life. Hell she will fiercely and unpleasantly oppose you and make your life a living Hell emotionally and psychologically at the very time you need her most.

Then combine the Red Pill knowledge of the woman's feral nature, Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks, hypergamy, and all the rest with your near complete and total powerlessness.

We have identified on MRP (through Rollo) that the source of the little nugget of power we still retain is our COMMITMENT. Marriage therefore REMOVES POWER FROM THE MAN. Savagely and brutally removes power.

In fact, modern marriage so thoroughly removes power from husbands that it is VERY common for /r/deadbedrooms to emerge shortly after the vows. The woman loses all sexual attraction for a powerless, neutered man. A tamed man. Ask me how I know.

Marriage is the institution which built civilization. Marriage is a sacrament to many Christians and a religious duty. A good marriage is like a bird gliding through the air because, indeed, a strand of 3 cords is not easily broken. It can be a stable, wonderful, Godly institution. The problem is that institution no longer exists in the real world. Sure there are pockets of "real" marriage but these all exist at the pleasure of the woman.

Today, marriage is nothing more than giving a loaded gun to your wife and telling her to point it at your head. Then when you say the vows, you spend the rest of your life dancing and dancing, hoping you can entertain her so she doesn't pull the trigger. They should put that in the vows, in fact.

On MRP we teach you how to dance and we get good results, but it is only a shadow of the true institution.

Finally, I don't think it would necessarily take a huge number of changes to make marriage at least a reasonable deal for men and I think it is possible to accomplish. The problem is that nobody gives a flying fuck what happens to men. Men die by the tens of thousands by suicide and ruined lives by the millions and nobody cares. The ONLY way change will ever happen is if WOMEN ARE INCONVENIENCED in some small way.

Therefore, THE ONLY WAY CHANGE IS GOING TO HAPPEN IS IF ENOUGH MEN DO SOMETHING LIKE...REFUSE TO COMMIT TO WOMEN, ESPECIALLY IN A LEGALLY BINDING MARRIAGE.

We have had decades of "Men's Rights" and 4-5 years of MGTOW and now suddenly we are seeing articles pop up all over the place: Where are all the good men? Peter Pan Syndrome. Women marrying later. Why are men avoiding marriage? The "Movement" is having an effect and I will fight to keep MRP from being a place that buffers the growing discontent. I am not one of those "let it burn" guys, but it does need to be singed.

Marriage is not an option for men today and I oppose it despite the fact that I am actually one of the few categories of men who actually benefit from his marriage. My wife is a business lawyer for a major company and makes $200,000.00 per year. She really is a Proverbs 31 woman who does not eat the bread of idleness and her lamp does not go out at night.

Would I marry her again? I might have a church party and a big celebration. I definitely would have a party and get hammered. I would recite the traditional vows. Would I sign the piece of paper? Not a fucking chance.

I spent years in the family courts and in many ways I did not understand what I was seeing until I took the Red Pill much later. What I saw was Misandry, pure, directed, targeted, vicious man hating filth. THAT is the system. THAT is marriage and the ONLY way we are going to change it is by rejecting it as a group.

Marriage is a bad deal for men AS A GROUP and we need to reject it AS A GROUP.

Sure if you are already married, divorce is not just a "bad option" but an incredible, awful, terrible option. So follow TRP/MRP praexology, preserve what you have, but younger guys need to reject this deal that is offered. It's the only way forward.

[deleted] · 2016-05-05T14:44:46+00:00

Guys get cheated on because they deserve to get cheated on.

If you're willing to get into a marriage knowing that, be my guest.

Would I encourage your average joe fucking retard to get married? Nope. Would I stop him? Nope.

You do you.

tl;dr - marriage as a relationship archtype is cool. marriage as a gov't contract - be wary.

bogeyd6 · 2016-05-04T23:50:23+00:00

Marriage is a Bad Idea

My own view of this is the system is setup for the man to fail and suffer severe penalties over time. The problem with marriage in today's society is once you are in it, you in it. Marriage is a game, and it's not one you want to lose. Many of us were plugged in when we pulled the trigger. We played all our cards right, and we took that blue pill with a smile. Hell, I thought the day I said "I do" was the best day of my life.

Welcome to the red pill. Where we can see it for exactly what it is. You see TRP is all about fixing yourself and making the choices that you want to make in the direction of your life. Your journey is about the improvement in you and making life the way you want it to be for yourself. You control your actions and your life with the blindfold removed. As ET once said, "You don't like that Im not doing this that, I DONT CARE, Im not living my life for you, I am living my life for me".

Now when you advocate getting married you give a second person a measure of control in your life. You can be as alpha as you can be, play every card exactly the red pill way. Awesome bod, awesome social life, perfectly happy and content wife. Life is beautiful aint it? Well, at any moment in this time she can walk away, same as you. You pretended that you could control another person and the fact is, you can barely control yourself. Now you lose your children, your money, social stigma, and the last 15 years you spent building that life is washed away like a sand castle on the beach. Sure, you will be fine and pick them pieces up and move along. But why? You could have the exact same thing with an LTR with none of the consequences (unless you live in a common law marriage state).

Well, fuck it. Now you are married and no easy way out. It's time to start building your life and improving what you have. You play the hand your dealt, now with the red tinted glasses. Save it if you can for as long as you want it, and then discard it like a gum wrapper on the sidewalk if you so choose. Your married life doesn't have to be horrible and if being happily married until the kids graduate college is what you want. Then go get it champ.

isolos · 2016-05-05T17:44:50+00:00

Head mod here. Do what you want. Treat it as a contract, the terms are shitty for you, but if you agree to the terms, go ahead and sign it. Once you sign it though, you should honor the terms.

I did not create this sub to tell people what to do. I created a place for discussion. Mods are not here to guide your hand and teach you what to do - we are more like janitors, we remove shitposts and try to keep this place clean and tidy. There are no guidebooks to follow. What worked for others may not work for you, and vice versa. Use your own judgement.

sexyshoulderdevil · 2016-05-05T04:15:23+00:00

I'm with Jack. Time to start flossing

[deleted] · 2016-05-05T05:04:00+00:00

I have been married 15 years. Had textbook ups and downs in my marriage. TRP and MRP gave me perspective and now I see everything for what it is and I am happier.

Irrespective of geography (Except a few countries), women have too much power, that is unquestionable.

TRP recently had a spike in members, the amount of posts became too low quality until the mods stepped in. I think they are experiencing some growth issues and are trying to address it. But why they chose to write about MRP mods, I fail to understand. For me, MRP is a TRP forum for those who are married, as the motto of this sub....that's about it. And its been awesome.

Healthy debate on the issue is fine. But I fear this is going towards the RPW debacle.

[deleted] · 2016-05-05T19:48:22+00:00

If your wife is hot, you have a good life and good sex, go crazy.

If your wife turned into a lump, you watch shitty tv everyday and touch yourself more than actual sex, you may go crazy.

plein_old · 2016-05-06T00:17:22+00:00

Whoa - I'm confused. Is the question about "legal marriage" or just about committed LTR's?

A "legal marriage" is a three-way contract between two people and a huge bureaucracy that would like to enforce its opinions onto the two people - who are likely having a hard enough time as it is just relating to another human being day to day, haha.

The traditional form of marriage is very different from that - you get your families together, you agree to commit to each other, in front of witnesses (your family), you ask your families to help your marriage be successful, and so on. Maybe you sign names in a bible. You celebrate. You celebrate life and love and relationship.

Government bureacracies giving you "permission" or "license" to be married is a brand new invention, relatively speaking, which, as far as I know, is unheard of in human history. And I can see why many people would be uncomfortable with it. Or think it was absolutely insane and dysfunctional. You're basically saying you want a huge bureacracy to make decisions for you about intimate details of your private life.

Is this what this whole thread is about? The way the OP asked it wasn't clear to me.

When I think of marriage I think of an intimate, social event, with no "licenses". You agree to be with someone for richer or poorer, etc. But others might be thinking primarily of the three-way legal contract. It would help me understand this thread if I knew which one people were talking about?

its-iceman · 2016-05-06T21:02:42+00:00

Different people have different ideas about stuff. Including the moderators here. Good. I don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of stupid sheep.

As for the subreddit drama, who cares?

pingpongsam · 2016-05-09T15:16:12+00:00

I disagree with the stated perception that MRP espouses marriage as an overall good strategy and somehow the true way of the alpha. I do not think marriage is always a bad idea but I think it rarely is going to be a good one. It is, however, red pill on hard mode. Hard mode is when the player is intentionally handicapped to increase difficulty. Marriage definitely does this. If I knew then what I know now I would not get married. But today I am and I intend to stay married to this woman. Failing that I'd like to think I'd not do it again but I can't know that.

Since I am married and intend to stay in this marriage I find real value in both TRP and MRP. There's a lot of stuff in TRP that doesn't work because I'm way past my twenties and married. Everything in MRP is applicable.

[deleted] · 2016-05-05T18:55:25+00:00

whether or not MRP mods think getting married is a good idea.

I'm not a mod, but here goes.

Marriage is a bad idea now. That's because of several reasons: (1) divorce law, child custody/alimony and false rape claims. (2) the overall state of women as "empowered" cunty bitches who don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. (3) The overall condition of men as submissive, weak, underconfident, feminized male-persons who believe that if they just do the Blue Pill thing better, they'll actually make it work.

The only reason MRP exists is because there were many men who bought into the lies, weren't formed up correctly, and/or just didn't get it. They needed to have someone lay out for them, in serial, step by step fashion, how to "adult" and how to be a man. Men who avoided the mainstream feminization messages, were formed up correctly with good coping skills, and "got it" don't need to take a Red Pill - they were given a slowly digesting version when they were toddlers. So by the time they got to meeting girls in their early teens, they were good to go.

Just about everyone here fits into one of those categories: You didn't "get it" as a kid; you weren't formed up correctly for whatever reason and thus didn't get the messages; or you understood it but went Blue Pill because that's what everyone told you to do.

I'd venture a speculation that if most of you could go back in time and transport your Red Pill selves to a time before you married, you would not have married your wives. I'll confess: I wouldn't have. I might -- MIGHT-- have LTR'd her. I would have vetted her much more carefully. But I wouldn't have signed the paper. I wouldn't have legally married her or anyone else.

Most married men today (not just on MRP) are weaksauce. Most married men are married to women they shouldn't have married and who aren't right for them, and wouldn't have married had they not been Blue Pill at the time.

If my current marriage ends for any reason, I will not remarry under any circumstances.

I predict in the coming years that men in LTRs or "common law marriages" will be treated as "married" for all intents and purposes. This will be a marked reversal from legal trends of 30 to 50 years ago, when common law marriage was abolished in most US states. The reason: Men are going to be forced to pay, one way or another. Men are not going to be allowed to fuck a woman on the regular without providing her whatever "security" she claims to be entitled to. That security will usually be considered as monetary transfers from men to the woman (women) they fuck, whether they're legally married or not. So you won't be able to escape ongoing financial obligations to a woman you're fucking just because you're not legally married to her. If you're in a common law marriage with her, you'll be treated as married for all intents and purposes, and you'll be subject to alimony provisioning.

Bottom line is that I wouldn't recommend marriage, or even cohabitating LTRs. If my current marriage ends, I won't remarry under any circumstances. I also recommend that men who are in failing or failed or DB marriages should divorce if there are no kids. I see no reason to save such a failed marriage if all there is to do is divvy up property and there are no children.

slcjosh · 2016-05-05T22:28:21+00:00

I actually follow both MRP and TRP, despite not being married. Why? I believe in the institution. You can get dramatic and sappy and say I like the idea of a life long love, but that is not really the motivation. I want at minimum, one son. Being married to a decent woman who I can try to build a life with to make my son's life the most advantageous as possible is my goal. I don't really see an easier way to raise kids than in a functioning two parent household. I have a few friends who are married, have children, successful careers, and their wives are still attractive and they are still having plenty of sex I know it is possible.

A lot of my opinion is based on empirical evidence about two parent vs single parent households. Some is based on personal experience in what I have seen with my own family and friends. I was raised by my father with the idea that it is your job as a parent if you bring life into the world, to give that life every possible advantage. My dad did a fine fucking job, but so did my mother, so I know it is possible. I just have to be extremely careful.

Title	MRP and marriage: Mods answer
Author	SorcererKing
Upvotes	14
Comments	59
Date	May 4, 2016 10:59 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/4hx55e/mrp_and_marriage_mods_answer/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/mrp-and-marriage-mods-answer.200029 https://theredarchive.com/post/200029

Comments