bad fathers

Input_output_error · 2023-09-23T11:25:59+00:00

By making fatherhood 100% a choice.

plumberack · 2023-09-23T09:47:08+00:00

Are absentee fathers due to that they divorced the mother and walked out of relationship or because the father was alienated by the mother by using family court resources and filing false accusations?

We need to fight against these feminist controlled system. Family court judges, child support collectors office, child protection service, domestic violence orgs, these are all feminist controlled.

lostcymbrogi · 2023-09-23T10:52:17+00:00

I would say they already are. They are fighting for the equal right to children. They are fighting to be fathers. People like Jordan Peterson have laid out visions of what leadership in a community looks like. Ethical behavior for a fulfilling life.

Perhaps what you should be asking is at what point is it no longer the responsibility of the community but the individual. Since the community has already done its bit, I would say that time has already come.

walterwallcarpet · 2023-09-23T09:48:43+00:00

Cut welfare. Stop making the state a proxy provider to women through our taxes. The state is a bad 'father'. It takes no interest in educating boys or providing them with a sense of male values and ethics in female-led households.

Whereas, much of women's education for 'life' is provided by instinct, the female neuroendocrine system.

Angryasfk · 2023-09-23T14:45:32+00:00

What kind of question is that to ask? Ask a feminist about bad mothers you either have the whole idea denied, or it will be blamed on the “bad men” who’ve let her down, or “society” and, naturally, “the patriarchy” that’s all really at fault.

Now things like default 50:50 custody for example. That does not mean that bad fathers get 50% custody. It means that unless it can be substantiated that they’re bad fathers they will. And actual evidence, not some “believe all women” (and their slimy divorce lawyers) allegation. Even the so-call paper abortion is about men having the equivalent opt out of parenthood that abortion laws give to women.

But if you want to put pressure on men to be better fathers, how about giving fathers and fatherhood greater respect? How about valuing it? Because why expect guys to feel shame for not doing something that’s roundly ridiculed and belittled?

ggleblanc2 · 2023-09-23T12:20:13+00:00

The number of abusive biological fathers is tiny compared to the number of abusive "boyfriends" of the mother and the mothers themselves.

KoDa6562 · 2023-09-23T10:47:46+00:00

We don't have an answer for it yet. Bad fathers come in all shapes and sizes, so you can't apply a one fits all solution. Best way to start might be parenting classes?

DaGoat2077 · 2023-09-23T12:39:56+00:00

I guess what is your interpretation of bad? If you are saying absentee then that may not equate to bad. If you are suggesting abuse, then I am not sure that is something that MRA could ever really rectify.

Sure they could ostracize people or intimidate abusive male parents. However, as everyone is raised differently the only thing to do is provide education for alternatives.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-09-23T09:59:48+00:00

By preventing bad mothers from alienating kids from them.

WeEatBabies · 2023-09-23T10:51:07+00:00

We must first tell men that they matter and they can be good fathers, so that believe they can do it in the first place.

But it's really hard when the feminist mainstream media puts them down on purpose : https://www.instagram.com/p/Cw56AW9LxSR/ see this Instagram, the Barbie movie or any depiction of men in popular culture for example Homer Simpson.

We are being shutdown all over the place, we are trying to not only get the world to realize men are not evil or useless, but feminism keeps silencing us : https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/oct/26/the-red-pill-melbourne-cinema-drops-mens-rights-film-after-feminist-backlash

We are also fighting against the Duluth Model and for gender neutral grape definitions, but again, we run into feminism and these ladies run the world : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRuLJnxL2lA

https://www.instagram.com/p/CfeFR0pNeQE/?img_index=1

OldEgalitarianMRA · 2023-09-23T16:20:41+00:00

I made a whole post on how we can raise boys to be better fathers. With the advent of default 50/50 we have to change the way we raise children.

Fathers are important and boys should be raised to try to be good fathers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/16mygwd/state\_of\_american\_fathers\_2023/

Foxsayy · 2023-09-23T17:05:36+00:00

We need to tackle bad fathers, but it's also bad parents. My mom was way more fucked up to me and did a lot more damage than my dad did.

Altruistic-Cold-7074 · 2023-09-24T00:04:47+00:00

Start working on Bad Moms first. And you don't know what paradoxical means.

MembershipWooden6160 · 2023-09-23T19:30:30+00:00

Talking about family unit degradation or men not being willing to be fathers while expressively trying to ban discussion about laws that made such change, or feminism that pushed for such change, or women who did it in practice - is akin to gaslighting people in here. Don't fall for that Feminist trap, you should make sure you unlearn this kind of reasoning and your life will be much better.

MRA is "unable to tackle" issue with men who don't want to be fathers or simply refuse to have any meaningful connection with their child because MRA respects the fact that father isn't a wallet and refuses to criminalize morality. Just because you insist that any man should have an option to opt out, it doesn't mean YOU would do it as well. That's MRA's approach. Just because you were labelled as a father doesn't mean anyone can force you to be one. Society goes the other way and they keep men to supposed "higher standards" but no, it actually just denigrates men and fathers in particular, those who actually want to be fathers. It's just enforcing Medieval roles and behavior upon men - but notice that you'll have no possibility to call women upon same standard, much less to try to uphold such standard by legislation - and it's good that it's so. MRA advocated for men's choice in this regard. Taking feminism and women out of that equation is naive - because Feminism and just about every woman will NOT agree that you have any say about anything, they are used to men being expendable and that your average man's opinion doesn't even matter about an issue that directly directly affects large proportion of men.

MRA is also not willing to side with bashing men for situations when men want out and mothers want to keep them involved - for the fact that men are NOT seen as equal but optional parents by women and system. Society forces these men to continue paying child support - which yet again goes with what I previously wrote, they think that's what being a father is essentially and utilize it as a way to criminalize "bad behavior", even if he can't pay it for whatever reason. It's a proof who clings to gender norms and when - MRA certainly isn't.

Once again, reject the notion that men exist to be women's options and that men and their well-being are irrelevant. Once you unlearn such notion that men are expendable members of society and shouldn't have any say or options and that this society is supposed to be service for Feminist desires at the same time in order to absolve women from responsibility for their actions, they won't be able to sell you that BS anymore.

Unnecessary_Timeline · 2023-09-23T11:37:17+00:00

How do ~~MRAs~~ Feminists plan to tackle the issue of bad ~~fathers~~ mothers since that's a paradoxical (generational) issue that affects boys that turn into men that continue the cycle?

Emphasis mine.

The cycle of what, exactly? Because recent research has shown that men are equally victims of sexual abuse or rape at the hands of women, and also victims of IPV at the hands of women. No, I will not do the research for you, check the sidebar for sources on male victims of IPV and male victims of sexual abuse.

Anyway, this was a great question! I assume you mean issues such as Mother-Son emotional incest or Mother-Son enmeshment or even direct incest, right?

Well, here’s how we’ve spent decades tackling or researching these forms of sexual abuse perpetrated by women which victimize men and boys: by advocating for politicians to at least acknowledge men as boys as potential victims of sexual abuse or rape at the hands of women, donating toward male-exclusive homeless shelters/sober living homes/halfway houses/rehab programs, trying to set up our own organizations with the same govt funding that exclusive women’s organizations get (resulting is about 30 years of discrimination resulting the the suicide of at least one male advocate and countless male victims), and more

Yet for some reason, the Capitalist, Governmental, and ruling social narrative of the Feminist institution repeatedly fucks any such male-centric advocacy before it can even manage to have a voice in the political realm. And has driven multiple prominent male-advocates to suicide.

Being a “bad father” is not a privileged or legally protected class within law when it comes to father’s rights or a man’s rights in divorce from marriage. He can be denied the right to access his own children and home and vehicle within 24 hours as a result of an emergency protective order solely issued as a result of what the police on the scene choose to believe from nothing but statements. For up to ~21 days, or more, depending on the US state.

Don’t even have the time to get into how Malicious Paternal Fraud is literally the only kind of fraud which is not considered a criminal act in any country, and not even a civil tort in the vast majority of countries.

For example; France, Germany, Portugal, and Switzerland prohibit any biological paternity tests which are not ordered by a court and/or consented to by both the assumed mother and father. This effectively denies men the right to biological autonomy because the man must serve a court order or have the mother consent to the test or both.

How do Feminists plan to tackle..literally any of these issues? Do you have any evidence that the government institution of Feminism, or the capitalist institution of feminism, or the warmongering institution of feminism, or the academic institution of feminism, has tried to mitigate any of this?

After all, Feminism is supposed to liberate both women and men from gender restrictions, right?

calmly86 · 2023-09-23T17:38:21+00:00

How to solve the issue of bad fathers?

I would say that’s on women.

Women choose the men who become fathers.

If women choose said men based on superficial traits instead of his character, that’s on them.

aigars2 · 2023-09-23T13:05:45+00:00

How do society tackle bad mothers? Same way.

Present_League9106 · 2023-09-23T16:04:35+00:00

You've gotten this response in a roundabout way, but I think we focus too much on men doing wrong and not enough on women doing wrong. You make the point that this is a generational issue that reminds me of the concept that "toxic masculinity" is patrilineal. Is this an accurate assessment of what you're trying to say? Mothers are more likely to instill "toxic" traits in their sons than fathers and mothers are more likely to abuse their children. This doesn't really answer your question, but the reality is that society tends to burden men more with more rigid definitions of how to be "good."

In short, the system we have may not function well, but it's definitely not just a men's issue. We should be trying to end parental abuse of children by fathers and mothers. That's the real problem we're dealing with.

hendrixski · 2023-09-23T16:46:22+00:00

EDIT: No, I'm not talking about cases where the father was alienated by the mother!!! I'm referring to parental abuse and/or neglect.

Ah, that wasn't clear from the preceding paragraph.

Fathers are not the majority of child abusers. But we can always do better so here's a list of ways I think we can help.

The most impactful thing is to stop the cycle of abuse. Hurt people hurt people. So fewer men in boys who become victims of abuse results in fewer fathers who might abuse others.

We internalize the messaging that people give us about who we are supposed to be. If we internalize messaging that talks about fathers as abusers, it becomes somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. The answer is to highlight more role model fathers. When boys think that's the norm that's what they will grow up to be.

I assume that wanted pregnancies are less likely to result in abuse, and certainly reduces neglect. So making parenthood a choice for both men and women, would reduce neglectful and abusive fathers.

More outreach by psychological professionals would help. Many men don't feel like it's for them because it's marketed heavily for women... and the messaging that blames men for this is making the situation worse. A better support outlet would reduce neglectful or abusive fathers.

Those are a few things we can do.

n0tqu1tesane · 2023-09-24T00:03:18+00:00

How do MRAs plan to tackle the issue of bad fathers since that's a paradoxical (generational) issue that affects boys that turn into men that continue the cycle?

You don't bother to define what a "bad father" is, and assume is is the responsibility of MRAs to fix an undefined problem. You then go on to imply boy who has had a bad father will become one himself, making it an unbreakable cycle.

I had a bad father. I don't think that means I would be one, and am rather insulted that I am assumed not to have learned from his actions.

I'm guessing just as many bad parents of either sex had a good parent as bad.

If your wife's mother was convicted of child neglect, does then mean your wife will also neglect your children?

Why do you assume I'll do what my father did, just because he was my father?

plumberack · 2023-09-24T07:42:28+00:00

I'm referring to parental abuse and/or neglect.

Which biased law against women allows that?

Parental alienation works by accusing the husband of domestic violence and child molestation to win the full custody because family court holds that bias and prejudice against fathers.

Ill_Control9090 · 2023-10-20T04:12:13+00:00

Not one of them said get a vasectomy.

Title	bad fathers
Author	Forsaken_Platypus_32
Upvotes	0
Comments	63
Date	September 23, 2023 9:33 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/16q03z0/bad_fathers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/bad-fathers.1232715 https://theredarchive.com/post/1232715

Comments