consent while drunk

skinnybignose · 2013-12-08T16:03:00+00:00

If I was a women I'd be incredibly insulted if someone told me I wasn't capable of deciding for myself if I wanted to fuck someone because I'd been drinking. Hell, I'm pretty sure some people go out purposely to get drunk, just so they lose their inhibitions, to make it easier for them to meet someone to fuck.

M4Strings · 2013-12-08T16:14:30+00:00

I love my girlfriend's reaction to this idea. She agrees that is a person is passed out drunk that's a no go unless consent is given beforehand, but she finds it insulting that if she has a bit to drink she needs to be treated as a child. Honestly who can blame her?

chocoboat · 2013-12-08T18:46:48+00:00

There's a sensible origin to this nonsense. People were teaching the obviously correct lesson that it is wrong to take advantage of someone who is passing-out drunk. It is rape to have sex with someone who is unconscious, and it's also rape to have sex with someone who is 60 seconds away from becoming unconscious.

That means that you can't ask someone if they want to have sex and take their drunken mumbling as a "yes". If they're clearly in no state to make decisions they can comprehend, then sex should be off limits.

Certain feminists, in an effort to endlessly play the victim, started leaving out the "passing-out" part of it, until it has eventually progressed to the point where if a woman has had a single drink that night, her given consent doesn't count.

It's kind of fascinating how they claim that this rule doesn't apply to men though. At the same time they demand that men and women be treated as equals, they insist that a man who is drunk is responsible for his choices but a woman isn't.

CynicalPineapple · 2013-12-08T16:31:53+00:00

This is another reason why you always bring a friend who is willing to go to the party and not drink, the sober companion. So that not only can they get you home safely but they can also keep watch of you in one of these circumstances and make sure you don't get in trouble nor cause any.

0xstev3 · 2013-12-08T22:01:46+00:00

Don't be that car

2013-12-08T22:23:39+00:00

Because women immediately lose all accountability and responsibility when it's not to their advantage. Duh.

0xstev3 · 2013-12-08T23:41:02+00:00

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Bartab · 2013-12-08T16:00:11+00:00

I wonder what you're supposed to do if she's drunk and you're just lying down, but sober. I think even if you say "you may not mount the penis" you're still going to be said to be in the wrong if she decides to hop on. However if you throw her off you could be charged with battery and then it will look even more like rape if she said that also happened. I think you're just supposed to run away from drunk women or set up an emergency fence. In car analogy speak they're kind of like deers in the road.

mrmrchoice · 2013-12-08T20:55:47+00:00

Edit & Disclaimer: information stated below is simply that - information; a statement of fact. It doesn't necessarily represent my opinions. That being said, it is what I recollect and interpret from a subject studied a while ago and may be wrong.

UK law here:

It's an interesting quirk really, that comes from a clash of the two following principles:

1. Intoxication can rarely, if ever, count as a defence. Being drunk won't negate your liability for committing a crime (especially "dutch courage" - getting drunk to give you the balls to commit that crime). Even if the intoxicant was given to you without your knowledge a court is unlikely to look at you favourably.
1. Intoxication can vitiate consent. If the victim is unconscious through alcohol, obviously there cannot be consent. If they are drunk but not unconscious it is for the jury to decide whether they were too drunk to consent.

Obviously these two can be impossible to reconcile; being drunk means you can be considered incapable of making the decision to consent to sex, but not considered to be incapable of making the decision to perpetrate a crime.

The basis here is one of fault - it's your fault you were drunk so it was your fault you punched that guy because he looked at your funny. Conversely, although it's the victim's fault they're drunk, doesn't mean it's their fault if a sober or more lucid assailant takes advantage of their intoxication.

The unfairness and gender imbalance, however, could come where both parties are equally intoxicated. Say a girl and a guy are both blackout drunk, hook up and when they wake up have little memory of the night together, though they know they had sex. I don't know exactly how it would pan out if the girl made a complaint to the police, but I can't imagine she would be arrested for sexual assault/assault by penetration - the assumption always is that the male must be the perpetrator of the crime, if there is a crime. That isn't fair.

Interesting side note: I know anecdotally of a rape complaint made to the police in the UK, where she had gotten drunk and hooked up with her ex after seeing him in a club. She'd suggested that they go back to his, and he had no idea she was so drunk until he went to get some water post-coitus and came back to find her throwing up in the toilet - at which point he gave her something warm to wear and rang her best friend to come take her home and look after her.

It turns out the police complaint never made it past the initial statement when she said she couldn't remember if she consented or not. I find it very interesting that the police didn't make any enquiries, or speak to the guy at all.

mrmrchoice · 2013-12-08T22:28:19+00:00

We didn't really touch much on this during my degree but I would imagine that judges read a gap between you becoming drunk and you doing whatever you did - as in, I get drunk but I don't punch people. Even if I got spiked I wouldn't punch people. So reversed someone who tends to get violent while drunk will be violent whether they intended to be drunk or no.

Titsout4theboiz · 2013-12-09T03:13:51+00:00

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Titsout4theboiz · 2013-12-09T04:34:08+00:00

I've said this on Reddit a couple times before, but I think the most reasonable standard is 'If shes so drunk that you don't think she should drive, you probably shouldn't have sex with her'.

rightsbot · 2013-12-08T15:48:20+00:00

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TRPACC · 2013-12-08T16:08:27+00:00

Capacity law allows you to plead that drunkenness is mitigating in both criminal law and law that governs agreements and agreements between people (contract / civil law).

It should be obvious that drunkenness is not mitigating when it comes to drunk driving because being drunk is part of the charge.

zenguyva · 2013-12-08T20:52:37+00:00

This is an excellent point. If in general, anyone is responsible for decisions made while intoxicated, because when sober they decided to drink, then why does being drunk exonerate women from responsibility for consent or "regretted consent" to sex. Sure, if you had passed out and were raped then, you have been violated, (although you have still exercise poor judgement), However, if you choose to allow intoxicants to inhibit your judgement, then you're responsible for the consequences.

If women want to be equal, then it seems the responsibility for their choices is the first step to equality. IE: I chose to have sex, and the consequences which follow are my responsibility. If I have a child then I have chosen to have a child, if I choose to have this child then it is my responsibility. (rather than co opt some random sperm donor to support the infant for 18 yrs.). If indeed the woman has the sole authority to decide whether to carry the fetus to term, then the responsibility for that choice should rest primarily upon the birth mother. With "power" comes responsibility.

consent while drunk

Comments

1 was definitely not consensual!

Title	consent while drunk
Author	0xstev3
Upvotes	23
Comments	120
Date	December 8, 2013 3:46 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1se0fz/consent_while_drunk/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/consent-while-drunk.1156736 https://theredarchive.com/post/1156736