Hypocrites

sixofthebest · 2011-07-05T16:40:38+00:00

I consider Men's Rights a branch of gender equalism, so it's not a conflict to me I support both men's rights and equalism. I don't see MRA as exclusive, as long as we do not claim to be the be-all-end-all equalism, like Feminism. MRA do NOT claim to be the righteous equalism crusade. MRA never ever say feminists or LGBT should just join MRA. What should be distinguished is that men's movement is very unlike Feminism because it's driven by RL issues not ideology.

The problem is not with specific groups advocating things that most concern them. The problem with some groups are over-zealous in their causes, to the extend that they will deliberately abuse statistics and researches, to create issue where there is none (i.e. wage gap). Feminists only look at women's life while only giving a superficial look at men's sufferings in their analysis, which is really the foundation of their -ism - not the political statements and lip service.

Today Feminism is more than ideology, it has grown into a giant institution and an inter-connected enterprises (lawyers, dv shelters, psychologists, media etc). To join forces with them is like willingly expose yourself to STDs. The current realistic state of feminism makes sense and is totally unsurprising when one gives it some thoughts, as other movements had shared the same fate. "All movements move too far", Russell once said. But when it comes to women's rights people are all too inclined to be naive.

foerthan · 2011-07-05T13:38:17+00:00

No, the problem that MRAs have with the (modern) feminist movement is not because they only focus on women's issues, it's because they deny and/or downplay the issues that men have. As a direct result of this, they further strengthen and divert attention from the problems that men face, and are thus part of the problem.

Nobody here who calls themselves an MRA denies that women were at one time discriminated against, and perhaps may still be, nor do we downplay their issues (so long as they are able to be backed up by studies and statistics).

THAT is the difference between the MRA movement and third wave feminism.

guizzy · 2011-07-05T19:32:52+00:00

Take a look at the thread you posted on Feminism.

What do you see there? "Patriarchy hurts men too" (blaming men), a lot of vague mentions of "male privilege", no effort in understanding or explaining. These things are gospel to the theoretical feminists who control the movement. They are never questionned; any dissent is shamed or excommunicated.

What can't you see there? An honest discussion.

Here? Well, I disagree with several posters here, I do believe that gender equality is possible, but most of them debated you, tried to convince you with facts and arguments.

memymineown · 2011-07-05T15:29:56+00:00

I downvoted this because we get the exact same question every single week. Why don't you look up the answers to those questions?

Do a little research before posting and maybe you will have something intelligent to say.

Edit: I also downvoted you because you asked me not to downvote you.

kloo2yoo · 2011-07-05T14:16:38+00:00

Wouldn't it make sense to form a group called "Gender Equalism"

there is one. /r/egalitarian. if you want to post there, do so.

/genderegalitarian was a failure, because the mod claimed the word for feminism.

/equality was a failure for the same reason.

JustinTime112 · 2011-07-05T18:48:14+00:00

The word you are looking for is egalitarian.

Egalitarianism is the belief that all human beings should have equal rights and responsibilities. This applies to both genders, all races and LGBT-people.

What you are missing is that the men's rights movement is already part of the egalitarian movement. IN HERE we concentrate on a specific area... but that does not mean that we do not recognise that other groups need to exist or that we are not also members of those groups as well.

Oh and you are getting downvoted because you know nothing about the men's rights movement and still feel you know enough to 'fix' us.

pcarvious · 2011-07-05T20:25:00+00:00

Gender equality isn't something that can be achieved through feminism as it stands right now. The reason for this is three fold. First, it doesn't advocate for the complete breaking of gender roles. Rather it advocates for the break down of select high prestige roles while allowing others, like garbage collection, front line soldiers, and other dirty jobs to remain male dominated. It also doesn't allow for a two way street into previously female dominated fields. There are very few male teachers and the numbers are dropping. There are relatively few male nurses. I don't know if the numbers there are increasing or decreasing. Recently in Sweden the Affirmative Action plan was cut completely and labeled as a success because men were starting to benefit from it rather than women in terms of specific program enrollment.

Colleges are looking close to a 40 - 60 split right now, male to female. Yet, the problem is brushed under the rug because equal numbers, percentage wise, of high school graduates apply to enter college. The reality is, a huge number of young men are failing out of school, dropping out, etc because their way of learning was never taught in classrooms. I don't know if you've heard of the hundred girls project, but it outlines the gender disparities that happen in schools today. There is little or nothing being done to fix the issue. Rather than saying it's masculinity that's causing the problem, maybe it's the rigid teaching style that teachers must adhere to now that's the problem. Men didn't drop out in these numbers in the past, why are they doing so now?

Now for my favorite beef. Patriarchy theory does not allow for gender equality. For Patriarchy theory to exist it needs something to actually go through and oppress. Without an oppressor there is no victim, at least in this case. Much of the issues that society faces stems from that simple fact. To clarify though, for patriarchy to work it cannot acknowledge that women can oppress men. Rather, it says that men oppress other men and women are the tool to achieve it. It's taking the agency out of women's actions and turning the onus onto men. It completely ignores that women have capable and cognitive abilities equal to that of men in general. Patriarchy theory cannot allow women to exist as the oppressors because the entire feminist movement would fall flat on its face if that were to happen. That's why patriarchy is so loosely defined. That's why rape is defined as only committed against women, and that's why data on domestic violence is so often hidden or skewed.

Patriarchy theory is just another form of cognitive dissonance, and until that dissonance is gone, then there can be no such thing as gender equality.

Demonspawn · 2011-07-05T14:29:55+00:00

where you want true gender equality and not disproportionate power to one gender or another?

How is such a society possible when only women are capable of reproduction?

Arguing for "equality" is actually arguing for female supremacy, because female supremacy is the only possible end result of an attempt for "equality."

Or, said another way: "Until you can demonstrate a way of convincing society to treat men and women as equally disposable, this fantasy of equality between men and women cannot exist and is not a valid argument."

JustinTime112 · 2011-07-05T13:25:05+00:00

When men don't kill themselves 5 times as much, then equality rather than mens rights will be the question.

JustinTime112 · 2011-07-05T12:48:13+00:00

Well I have received a few downvotes. It would be nice if some one could explain why they disagree rather than downvote.

EDIT: This post was made early on, when there were no replies to this thread at all.

AntiFeministMedia · 2011-07-05T14:59:51+00:00

Feminist methods worked spectaculalry well though didnt they. And while feminist methods were under-handed lies for the most part, we have truths.

Are you suggesting that we bury those truths so as not to appear misogynistic?

Further, is it wrong to dislike a group of people, where a sizable portion do harm to others in many areas of life?

Should we like them, even when they harm us?

Is it our fault that we dont like them?

Am I a bad person?

meshosh · 2011-07-05T18:44:35+00:00

I think you are right. We need to focus on Gender Equality, not Men's Rights. However, feminists have already 'hijacked' that term long ago.

Try talking about gender equality with other people and you will notice that most will bring up feminist issues (like the 'pay gap', rape, etc). It's not very common for most people to think that gender equality goes both ways. And that's were men's rights comes in, to bring awareness that equality is not only about taking care of women, but men too.

Once the name Gender Equality goes back to its original meaning, there will be no more need for men's rights, or even feminism for that matter. But we still have a long way to go.

antisocialmedic · 2011-07-05T18:37:13+00:00

Shhhh, they don't like it when you point out the fact that they're giant hypocrites.

ManThoughts · 2011-07-05T14:11:49+00:00

Feminism is not about equality, it's about female privilege. Selective service, reproductive rights, criminal justice, domestic violence, sexual violence, divorce, child custody, infant circumcision, employment law, and social welfare are all areas where women enjoy profoundly unfair advantages over men. Feminism fights to preserve and enhance female privilege in all these areas.

Anyone who supports equal opportunity and equal rights for both genders cannot be a feminist.

Title	Hypocrites
Author	JustinTime112
Upvotes	3
Comments	108
Date	July 5, 2011 12:34 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ih4ed/hypocrites/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/hypocrites.1037752 https://theredarchive.com/post/1037752

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